To give a short introduction, I am a student from a Tier 2 NLU who belongs to an an erstwhile Dalit community in Kerala. Due to our socio-economic rise post Communism and Kerala Renaissance , we Ezhavas were elevated to the OBC category by the government.
In Kerala I haven't faced any discrimination in real life (maybe because OBCs are majority). But after I left the state to join my NLU, I came to taste caste and class discrimination for the first time, along with a slight dosage if regional discrimination [ The reason why I didn't mention colourism is because I faced it within Kerala too]
During our early days at the university, few teachers asked us to introduce ourselves to the class by telling our CLAT AIR rank. By the look on their faces and their snide comments I could tell that they were attacking the concept of reservation.
Among my friends, the topic of reservation hasn't been picked up yet, so I don't know their stance and opinions . However a batchmate of mine sneered on hearing my AIR rank and muttered some derogatory insult at reservation. As a retort I used the term "brahmanical privilege". For this the guy got irritated and made derogatory jokes about Kerala and even mocked sensitive issues like the Mulakkaram. Me trying to convince him how it's our own hardwork which improved our lifestyle, further irked him for some reason. And I can't belive that he dug up things about my caste to insult me going as far as jus primae noctis / Adhyaratri Avakasham . Of course this wasn't said I'm front of others but directly to me. I even vividly remember his cold expression and raspy tone.
Apart these incidents there were no overt caste discrimination in this NLU. However there were frequent dank jokes on various reserved classes and I did feel a bit left out, but I think that was more to do with the economic status and connections. (Which can on most cases be traced to the UC privilege).
However to give credit where it's due, the college has been wonderful in terms of things like moots, debates, etc and placements also seem to be growing decently over last few years I heard. So as an end note, while I faced discrimination from a tiny quarter, I still remain indebted to this university and consider it as a second home.
This isn't discrimination. At worst it is hate speech, but more likely it is just an average quarrel that devolved to personal insults. If you think this is actual discrimination, it is you who are infinitely privalged vis-a-vis those actually deprived and oppressed. Pray that you never see real discrimination, because real discrimination is in action, not in speech. It is silent. For instance, if your job application is silently rejected because of your community identity. This is just banter.
Are you gatekeeping discrinination? Micro aggressions like the ones the poster described are absolutely discrimination. Must Dalits be murdered for you to consider that 'discrimination' and take their plight seriously?
is he preventing you in anyway from accessing university resources or studying? is he preventing you from making the most out of law school? are you afraid for your physical safety?
It doesnt sound like it. You cant expect to go out into the world and have everyone agree with you. people are different and they will have different experiences and opinions. And most people will change their opinions several times as they grow up. Best to ignore if engaging bothers you.
Keep your eye on the ball. work hard, get a job, get scholarships- all of those things are a better use of your time than getting into an argument in real life or on the internet about reservations or about brahmanical privilege. Try and not provoke arguments about caste- you cannot always help it- some guys are gonna be awful- but its no use getting into it with these guys by and large. Pretend you dont hear them and move on. Its just a waste of your time and energy to engage with this.
Actually ezhavas were never considered Dalits they were just Avarnas that is they were outside the caste system. Caste system of Kerala is very complex and different from that of the rest India and in Kerala's social hierarchy they were just 3 varnas Brahmin, Kshatriyas and Shudras. While namboothiris came under the Brahmin Varna, Verma or the rulers were the Kshatriyas and the nairs the soldiers of the kshatriya kings came under the Shudra category all the others were considered Avarnas including Muslims and Christians. Ezhavas were at the top of the Avarna category they along with Christian Nasranis and Mappila Muslims played the role of vaishyas they were mostly traders, ayurveda practitioners and farmers also at some places they had martial traditions and were part of the royal army, even though they faced so much caste based discrimination historically and weren't allowed into Brahmin temples they had their own temples sacred groves and traditions and some of the wealthiest families in Travancore Kingdom were of ezhavas, they historically had a huge political power and political will. So you can't say that ezhavas are Dalits, they weren't Dalits. And for that matter I am from Kerala and there is casteism in Kerala at every level and the reason you didn't face any in Kerala was because you were from a politically and socially powerful community.
"Ezhavas were at the top of the Avarna category they along with Christian Nasranis and Mappila Muslims played the role of vaishyas they were mostly traders, ayurveda practitioners and farmers also at some places they had martial traditions and were part of the royal army.. .... they historically had a huge political power and political will.
So you can't say that ezhavas are Dalits, they weren't Dalits"
Brother/ Sister we both known that's not true. Except for the vaidyar part everything you mention is recent occurings happening within 150 due to the struggle and sweat of our own ancestors. Dalits just means Avarnas technically. Instead of trying to distance ourselves from them just because our status rose a little, we should support them and other bahujans and bring up them to our level bare minimum.
Our political and social power is not at all caste-derived under upper castes. There is no documented mythological tale for us. The power you talk of stemmed from sweat & blood of our own revolutionaries of last period like Arattupuzha Velayudha Chekavar, Narayana Guru, Sahodaran Ayyappan etc. So I would still we say Ezhavas were historically Dalits and should be proud to be one also. We are the shining example of how hardworking and social justice elevate living standards rapidly.
Dalits are not avarnas. Go read about the chamar and bhangia communities. The dalit is not merely someone that happens to be outside the varna system - he is specifically excluded because of the occupation his family is condemned to do.
Nairs are not Dalits/ untouchables. Kerala system only had Brahmin, Kshatriyas and the Others. Nairs were a respectable sect of Kerala, it is not even seen as a Shudra like other parts of India.
Nair/Menon/Pillai are all the same. No one considers them Shudras. Dalits on the other hands were actually treated as untouchables. Hence they are avarnas.
That's false. Nasranis and Mappilas were seen as buffer communities between Savarnas and Avarnas. Among the both Nasranis were considered higher traditionally even acting as theendal-purifiers while Ezhavas were considered as unapproachable historically.
One can disagree entirely that there was any casteism involved and thus disagree that OP was a victim in any sense of that word whatsoever. There is no obligation to support, then. Please reconsider your rhetoric of set-in-stone binaries of oppressor-victim. Intentionally or otherwise, you sully the truth of matters when you approach them with this dogma.
OP is a privileged, well-off individual from some of the best developed regions of the country, who has had opportunities and means far exceeding the vast majority of general category candidates at his university. This is the truth, and what populism has succeeded in getting the stage to designate the community as is irrelevant.
I am Ezhava (currently an OBC caste). And Ezhavas technically fall within ambit of Dalits. Dalits in this context means outcastes. In most of India, outcastes still earned extremely badly and had very low social representation at time of Mandal Commision. Hence most outcastes were legally classified as SCs.
However in Kerala, the financial status of Ezhavas rose up because of various factors including mass social reformation movements, missionary education, legal reforms opening up newer business avenues, etc. And finally when we got our first CM( R.Shankar) from the community, we were declassified from SC and made into OBCs.
The words Dalit and outcaste do not mean what you think they mean, such is the blinding intensity of your privilege. When one says Dalits are out castes, one means they have been outcasted and condemned to be polluting and untouchable due to the nature of the occupation assignment irreversibly to them and their ancestors. It does not mean merely a community that happened to lie outside the caste system in that it had no varna.
When you are assuming that Ezhavas weren't discriminated due to the nature of the occupation its you who seem to be behaving as the privileged one. Ezhavas were denigrated for being in field of toddy tapping (aka extracting fermented liquor from coconut trees). And even of certain other subsidiary proffesions followed by some women of the community out of compulsion(traced back to caste oppression) especially in coastal areas.
The label of the former has seen Ezhavas being denied temple entry, access to Savarna villages, etc along with being not allowed to state services like army, medical, etc in past. The occupation based slurs like "chethukaran" and "kotti" is still used today even for a CM from Ezhava community.
You saying out brahmanical privilege is also castism without knowing if that person did have the privilege or not. If you can bad mouth in general so can be
OP, there's just one thing you should hear regarding your experiences from anyone with even the smallest drop of humanity: simply, I am sorry that you faced this, it is unacceptable, full-stop. A few more things, however, need to be said regarding the responses to your comment where you have outlined your experiences. The amount of insensitivity and victim blaming (disguised as reasonable hair-splitting about definitions or what "actual" discrimination is supposed to look like) is as awful as your experiences. I am sorry that the mods haven't intervened in this and done their job properly either, by marking more of these comments "contested", "trollish" etc, and reminding people here about the value of kindness. They should be deeply ashamed of themselves. Very simply, you came to this forum looking for support, and all you got is more hate. Shame on everyone else who has indulged in this.
How is calling someone for their privilege and a literal casteist slur (which is a crime under the SC ST Act) the same thing?
I usually don't respond to such threads having faced similar circumstances for my sexuality and colour, and knowing that NLUs are as liberal and accommodative as they present to be, in reality are quite the opposite. I was literally bullied into attempted suicide.
But your comment rubbed me the wrong way. You seem like a horrible person who has the irresistible and unintelligible urge to defend an issue that has plagued thus country for centuries. Also shame on you mods to not even mark this comment as trollish, when normal statements in other rant posts are instantly removed when they criticise a firm or recount incidents
OP has never said that a casteist slur was used. And the SC/ST act does not criminalise the mere uttarance of words, it's ingredients require more than that. For instance, the requirement is that there be public humiliation. How is your personal view of what you apparently experienced connected to OP's narration?
▮▮▮ To get back to the point: it does not matter what your personal ▮▮▮ judgement of my character is, nor what motives you hallucinate me to be having. My words stand on their own capacity, and I challenge you to respond to the substance of my argument without concocting non-existent facts or devolving to ad hominem.
Alternatively, you can continue to talk about how you feel, but it is not a valid argument and does not matter.
In Kerala I haven't faced any discrimination in real life (maybe because OBCs are majority). But after I left the state to join my NLU, I came to taste caste and class discrimination for the first time, along with a slight dosage if regional discrimination [ The reason why I didn't mention colourism is because I faced it within Kerala too]
During our early days at the university, few teachers asked us to introduce ourselves to the class by telling our CLAT AIR rank. By the look on their faces and their snide comments I could tell that they were attacking the concept of reservation.
Among my friends, the topic of reservation hasn't been picked up yet, so I don't know their stance and opinions . However a batchmate of mine sneered on hearing my AIR rank and muttered some derogatory insult at reservation. As a retort I used the term "brahmanical privilege". For this the guy got irritated and made derogatory jokes about Kerala and even mocked sensitive issues like the Mulakkaram. Me trying to convince him how it's our own hardwork which improved our lifestyle, further irked him for some reason. And I can't belive that he dug up things about my caste to insult me going as far as jus primae noctis / Adhyaratri Avakasham . Of course this wasn't said I'm front of others but directly to me. I even vividly remember his cold expression and raspy tone.
Apart these incidents there were no overt caste discrimination in this NLU. However there were frequent dank jokes on various reserved classes and I did feel a bit left out, but I think that was more to do with the economic status and connections. (Which can on most cases be traced to the UC privilege).
However to give credit where it's due, the college has been wonderful in terms of things like moots, debates, etc and placements also seem to be growing decently over last few years I heard. So as an end note, while I faced discrimination from a tiny quarter, I still remain indebted to this university and consider it as a second home.
It doesnt sound like it. You cant expect to go out into the world and have everyone agree with you. people are different and they will have different experiences and opinions. And most people will change their opinions several times as they grow up. Best to ignore if engaging bothers you.
Keep your eye on the ball. work hard, get a job, get scholarships- all of those things are a better use of your time than getting into an argument in real life or on the internet about reservations or about brahmanical privilege. Try and not provoke arguments about caste- you cannot always help it- some guys are gonna be awful- but its no use getting into it with these guys by and large. Pretend you dont hear them and move on. Its just a waste of your time and energy to engage with this.
So you can't say that ezhavas are Dalits, they weren't Dalits"
Brother/ Sister we both known that's not true. Except for the vaidyar part everything you mention is recent occurings happening within 150 due to the struggle and sweat of our own ancestors. Dalits just means Avarnas technically. Instead of trying to distance ourselves from them just because our status rose a little, we should support them and other bahujans and bring up them to our level bare minimum.
Our political and social power is not at all caste-derived under upper castes. There is no documented mythological tale for us. The power you talk of stemmed from sweat & blood of our own revolutionaries of last period like Arattupuzha Velayudha Chekavar, Narayana Guru, Sahodaran Ayyappan etc. So I would still we say Ezhavas were historically Dalits and should be proud to be one also. We are the shining example of how hardworking and social justice elevate living standards rapidly.
Jai Bhim Jai Gurudevan.
Nairs were a respectable sect of Kerala, it is not even seen as a Shudra like other parts of India.
Nair/Menon/Pillai are all the same. No one considers them Shudras. Dalits on the other hands were actually treated as untouchables. Hence they are avarnas.
However in Kerala, the financial status of Ezhavas rose up because of various factors including mass social reformation movements, missionary education, legal reforms opening up newer business avenues, etc. And finally when we got our first CM( R.Shankar) from the community, we were declassified from SC and made into OBCs.
The label of the former has seen Ezhavas being denied temple entry, access to Savarna villages, etc along with being not allowed to state services like army, medical, etc in past. The occupation based slurs like "chethukaran" and "kotti" is still used today even for a CM from Ezhava community.
I usually don't respond to such threads having faced similar circumstances for my sexuality and colour, and knowing that NLUs are as liberal and accommodative as they present to be, in reality are quite the opposite. I was literally bullied into attempted suicide.
But your comment rubbed me the wrong way. You seem like a horrible person who has the irresistible and unintelligible urge to defend an issue that has plagued thus country for centuries. Also shame on you mods to not even mark this comment as trollish, when normal statements in other rant posts are instantly removed when they criticise a firm or recount incidents
▮▮▮ To get back to the point: it does not matter what your personal ▮▮▮ judgement of my character is, nor what motives you hallucinate me to be having. My words stand on their own capacity, and I challenge you to respond to the substance of my argument without concocting non-existent facts or devolving to ad hominem.
Alternatively, you can continue to talk about how you feel, but it is not a valid argument and does not matter.
“The only way to stop discriminating on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”
Hence, abolishing reservation will lead to the end of snide remarks and resentment, because everyone will equally enter on merit.