An email by Avaantika Kakkar (CAM) to the entire Competition Team at the firm berating her juniors has gone viral - it's pathetic and toxic. Refuses to take accountability for deliverables sent out in her name. The buck stops with her. If the associates messed up, you don't name and shame them. Moreover, the entire tone reeks of toxicity. Pretty sure if she had herself been treated like this as a junior, she wouldn't have had the confidence to rise up the ranks in this profession and would have left the same.
No but the issues highlighted go way beyond work product. Judging by ONLY the email, it seems that the guys were being generally unprofessional. But I also feel that ideally this should have happened while internal checks were being conducted by the higher ups in the team before the product was sent out. Can some competition person explain what market share thing is being referred to in the mail and in your opinion on a scale on 1-10 what level of competence/knowledge is necessary for the task?
Must be some form being sent to CCI where the juniors had to include the market share of the particular company in the annexure. The market share details must have been received from the company (along with the calculations because lawyers don't do that) so the job must have been picking the calculations received from the company and pasting it in the document being sent out. My assumption
Calculation are done by lawyers and rechecked by lawyers even if companies provide it. Also, in some situations your client won't be privy to all the data due to confidentiality so the lawyers collate the data and do the calculation.
It's a simple excel sheet job but prone to mistakes.
Always a good practice to keep the calculation in Excel sheet and have a senior cross check the data along with the formulas and calculation.
I wonder why no mid level associate/ SA/ PA cross checked the data and checked the calculation. It's not rocket science but has to be done meticulously because it's easy to make silly mistakes.
So bad work, deserves, an even worse email? Irony is she writes about this rajat chap being a bully, when her own email, is nothing short of bullying and shaming. Don't blame the juniors, when the senior sets such examples. Cyril bhai, no lessons learnt? Or is the lesson that, kuch nahi hoga, nobody gives a shit? The world is changing, in a few years time, some kid, who's politically connected, would come out and over regulate you, just cos, he was in the shoes of these kids, at some point.
Boss, no one who has had employees appreciates a smartass who doesn’t deliver the goods and has a bad attitude. Don’t want to work? Don’t. Think you’re smarter than everyone else? Open your own shop. Don’t stink up the team at somebody else’s law firm. And whoever leaked this certainly didn’t do these kids a favour. Avaantika Kakkar obviously has a huge book, and will be just fine. These kids are just starting their careers and will become unemployable. See what Svyam (one of the boys mentioned) has written on the Twitter Feed of the guy who posted the leaked email:-
those who think these kids will be unemployable are mistaken. for sure, they will struggle for a few months or even 1 year to get over this....but it will soon be forgotten in the industry and life will go on. the fact is that they have a couple of years of PQE under their belt in a tier 1 firm and have learnt some skills on the job. a few years ago, another competition lawyer from a tier 1 firm got fired during the me2 campaign on several serious charges of sexual harassment. within a few months, he was hired by another tier 1 firm. if these kids can't find another decent job in the law firm industry, it will reflect very poorly on the moral standards of the industry.
A lot of things are elementary and are not reviewed! Partner’s duty isnt to correct every bit of the execution. Its the team’s job and the team has been rightly reprimanded!
Genuinely curious: what is the partner's duty then if not even to check if the numbers are correct or not?
If a ship sinks, it is the captain who gets guillotined first. Their literal responsibility is for the team. That is their primary job description. You cannot reap all the benefits and externalise the costs.
Buddy, the partners responsibility is to manage the team and get engagements, not check each outgoing piece of work. If that had to be done, they’d never grow their business. Associates, senior associates, principal associates and Partners all come below the head of practice, which Kakkar is. You might as well say Ratan Tata should have checked every TCS deliverable himself. These guys, especially the most senior amongst them, seem to have screwed up big time.
Did you just compare a CAM partner to Ratan Tata? Ded. 💀
I do not know how big the competition practice at CAM is but pretty sure that the partner does not have 7.5 lakh people employed in the team. Sure, your argument works for Ratan Tata but stop giving ridiculous examples.
No mid-levels in that team, no proper checks, and lack of adequate decision making experience= mistakes such as this. And then it didn't help that Ms Kakkar is a bully who's first method of feedback is ABSOLUTE berating the three juniors in front of the whole team instead of constructively checking what went wrong and how it can be stopped from happening again. And finally, if this is such a HUGE SIN that it is being made out to be, ask all three to leave with dignity and that's the end of the story. The team headed by Ms. Kakkar has an ugly reputation in the competition market, which only got affirmed by the silly actions of someone who screenshotted this email for fun. God bless the clients
Do the clients know that? When I hire a partner to do my work I expect that lawyer to look and sign off on the work product. If lawyers aren't doing that its an ethics issue.
So much nonsense in this post. The CEO of a company doesn’t go around checking every small job that a mechanic does. He or she hires good people and trusts them to get on with the job, under the supervision of lower management. If they can’t do their work properly, said hires are no longer employed. Same is here. Business is about survival and survival is earned by continued excellence and value provided to the customer. Not phoning it in and mouthing off to your bosses, only to collect an cheque at the end of the month. And no one guillotines captains of ships, you’ve mixed up your metaphors.
All of that is fine, but you're deluded if you think a law firm partner is on the same level as a CEO or a ship's captain lmao. Reminds me of my delusional former boss who'd keep comparing corporate lawyers to doctors, as if we were doing anything but making life a little worse for everyone involved.
This partner in question is paid an insane amount of money to send out documents that reflect "excellence and value", despite which she literally didn't bother to check the documents and the math that went out. She IS the lower management you talk of. Partners going around LI pretending to be entrepreneurs is hilarious. Y'all are wageslaves like the rest of us, act like it.
Partners don’t go around LI at all. A partners at AKs level is supposed to either execute or bring in ₹7 to 10 Crores worth of business a year. You’re poorly informed if you think they’re supposed to be checking every document that goes out. They have Partners UNDER them who have PAs under them who do all that.
"And no one guillotines captains of ships, you’ve mixed up your metaphors."
Yes they do. When you on sea and you piss off the crew and lose their confidence. They don't guillotine you, but they do make you walk a plank. It is clear that a partnership is the only ship you've ever served on.
how to convince a law firm or even a chamber to give him even 1/3 the salary while everyone is worried he may leak emails (or who knows maybe audios/videos too?)
What makes you think or even assume he would leak that email despite being at the firm himself? Easy to jump to such conclusions on a gossip platform - right?? There are multiple other associates marked on the thread, some of which have no remarks on themselves - they could have very well leaked it. If he/the other two subjects leaked it - they would have redacted their own names ffs. This has clearly been leaked because some other associate wanted to mock the ones marked/ show to a friend and then it spread like a wildfire. Stop further berating the subjects here ffs
What about the sheer professional incompetence of the associates? The sheer moral incomeptence of the person who leaked a confidential mail? Their behaviour?
These kids need to take responsibility for their actions instead of finding excuses in the name of toxicity.
When a Partner relies on your work, they put their reputation on the line because they trust you.
A Partner’s job is not just to look for more clients its also to ensure that work product especially something as important as market share is deduced properly. If you can’t do that you have no right to berate others especially in such pathetic and cowardly manner. Just goes to show what a horrible person she is. Plus stop singing such praises of yourself.
only 1 query - did AK bill the client for that work? (Not grandstanding on the ethics/ HR aspects of team management - am sure clients/ litigation law firms/ other legal service units - all have some crappy situations too)
If my younger sibling will be incompetent in serious work, i will support the partner. Its client work and a duty to the client. Imagine a doctor’s staff goofs up a patient’s treatment, how will people react? When the work concerns third parties, greater caution and duty is required.
Professional incompetence is not an excuse to disrespect people and treat them badly. Yes, the juniors need to take accountability for their mistakes but so does the partner. At the end of the day, the partner is responsible for the team no matter whose mistake it was. If the associates are not working as per your expectations, then you can give them feedback and train them or fire them. There is absolutely no need to call them names.
When entitled juniors don’t work and just gossip, why do the partners take responsibility? If you give 2 pages to them and they print one, why would you take accountability?
Yes I agree juniors need to take accountability and it may have been embarrassing for the partner. But at her level she should not be calling them out like this in public, she should have spoken to them 1:1 and explained to them the seriousness of the situation.
Why should the juniors take the bate for a bad boss? And plus you don't call out people on email with a casteist remark and mark everyone as if its a puppet show. What the hell Cyril Shroff, is this what your firm stands for?
lol classic rookie associate behaviour (I mean the commenter who claimed cast remark) - Commenting before reading the entire thing properly.
Based on the logic of all the other rookie associates, who are downvoting anything in favour of AK, it should LegallyIndia's fault that such a false comment (i.e., the comment claiming caste remark) was even allowed to be published.
PS - this email, in my opinion, is the least toxic thing that any boss could ever say to their junior. Out of all the toxic things that could have been highlighted about the law firm life, this hardly deserves to be controversial. What else do you expect to hear if you not only behave unprofessionally but also fuck up the work product?
Bro, I had a very hearty laugh at your comment. Not a lawyer and I don't know what shit actually happens at these law firms, but I hope nothing of this sort happens to you. Harippa
- Legal publications: A book with an ISBN, but no publisher mentioned (Google suggests that the publishing house is called "Snow White Publications" and based in Mumbai).
- Other achievements: "She is a published novelist"
If you are going to judge Avantika Kakkar based on her publication, then you are only screaming out your naivety. Go into the Competition Law circle and ask about her. She has been at the forefront of Competition Law in India. She is at the pinnacle of the field and her name comes with an unmatched reputation. Your parameters are misplaced and therefore understandably so, support for the shroudy behaviour of the associates is being made. Her choice of words may be harsh, perhaps unprofessional, but that does not takes away the unprofessional conduct of the associates. They should be held responsible.
Clearly, yes, they should be held responsible for shoddy work. But in this manner? With the world copied? You knownofnthe Chinese loan app scams? Exact same behaviour, people take loans and fail to repay back on time- these apps then access your contact list and and name and shame you. Really don't know how avaantikaas behaviour is any different here.
Can someone from the Competition Team explain how something (which appears super critical from the tone of the email) went out directly from the A2/A3s to the client/regulator ? Do SAs / PAs not check this?
You have to appreciate that if the partner has to check everything personally (including basic facts and figures) there is no reason to pay 18 lakh per year to A0 associates or 24 lakhs to A1s
juniors need to be reliable and go find another job, this holds true even where people are paid 25k per month, but especially if you are paid the best salary in the country
You nitwit - obviously you're one of the partners/ PAs/ SAs who missed this in their review. As much as they are being paid well, you're being paid doubly well (if not more)! You have a face with the client. You're the one whose going to get recognized by the industry.
Bhai tere logic se toh - market share associate dekhega, corporate info SA dekhega, substantial arguments PA dekhega. Aur tu [assuming, you're a partner] kya dekhega? Client ka paisa? Uss se kharidi hui shauharat? Get real dude.
Unfortunately - most law firm partners today are first to steal all the credit when things go well, but when shit goes south - blame the team. I wonder how these buffoons sleep at night. Truly disturbing that we're living among such disgusting, immoral fools - who are "mentors" to the next generation of lawyers. Lol.
P.s. - not from CAM. But effected by foolish partners, PAs with a similar attitude.
Sorry it does not clarify. I didn't say the partner albeit the head of competition has to check. I'm asking why an A2/A3 sent out a work product to the CCI without anyone else checking it. I don't see what remuneration has to do with it.
Why do you feel so many layers of review will be required? You understand it costs money right? Firms like CAM are trying to be more efficient, clients want lower billing. A3 can’t get facts and figures right?! Everything has to be checked with a magnifying glass 🤦
Not so many layers. Were talking bout 1 single layer. We are not talking about a contract going to the client/opposite counsel. We are talking about a market share calculation going to the CCI. Understand the difference.
Literally, at that level. All they have to do is review the work of their juniors. The real question is how did you let that pass without reviewing it and make yourself look like a fool
Honestly, she has written a polite but firm email to someone who has obviously performed well below the mark, and someone whose work place demeanour is not acceptable. If you find it offensive, I imagine you have either not worked at a firm ever before, or you have some bizarre expectation of cordiality from a professional senior. These guys are lucky to be working at a top firm. If they can’t hack it, there are plenty of others ready to take their place and supply a better attitude to boot.
Lucky? Are we now calling clearing all rounds of interviews, surviving 4+ years, good grades and ECAs luck? How exactly are the associates lucky to work w the firm?
From what it seems they are there fair and square. The firm needed these maharathis as much as they need them. Stop calling hardwork luck
Drop this attitude. The firm is lucky to have hardworking associates. In the US, employers are seen as depending on associates as the associates on the firm.
For every place any of these people occupy at CAM, there are not ten, but hundreds of qualified lawyers willing to work. “Clearing rounds of interviews” is all very well. But at two to three years of experience, these guys are UTTERLY replaceable.
No question of dropping any attitude. They’re lucky to have these positions, period. They pay well, and provide a defined career path. People like AK hire staff to produce quality output, not do whatever they like and then leave it to the boss to sort it out, while copping an attitude. And after this disaster they’ll be lucky to find work anywhere to be honest. Some of these guys realise this, as one of the named associates has already called out the guy who made it viral (Pandey). Basically he says everyone (whether on one side of the debate or the other) is having their fun at his expense and that of the other associates, and it’s not what he expects of his colleagues at the bar.
Well, there is a stark difference between scolding and shaming and this email was clearly an act of shaming. It embarrassing for people to think that hard work always has to be toxic hard work and scolding always has to be bullying/ shaming. These people are freaking privileged and think that the world revolves around them. I have senior who would never indulge in shaming their juniors. In fact, they'll also put a good word for juniors who they themselves expelled.
Kar di na partner wali baat. Just because you wasted your life groveling before meanies doesn't mean everyone has to. This is how the world functions now. AK put something on email for permanent record, she has to stand by it now.
I agree with you. It's the same old culture war between hard-ass Gen X vs woke Gen Z --- with the cool kids of Gen Y munching popcorn, watching the fun and trolling both 🍿😎
I have gotten offers from tier 1s and rejected because i got better opportunities. nobody is "lucky" to be working at CAM. if someone from a top tier NLU has to feel lucky to get a job in capital markets at CAM then surely i should feel lucky that no bird shat on me today. What tragedy that people think like this man.
Anyone who is chattering away over here about what a badass he is, and how Tier 1 firms have been clamouring to have him, but he rejected them, and it’s as good as a bird shitting on him is full of the selfsame bird-poop lol. Go on buddy. Carry on living this noble life where you keep rejecting the poor Tier 1 firms which are dying to have you haha.
It is exactly this sort of attitude that makes top tier corporate law firms so toxic. Such toxicity cannot and should not be justified in any manner. Absolutely unprofessional and I would describe AK in her own words as an "INCOMEPETENT" leader. I guess if she knew her email was going viral, she would have asked one of these junior associates she likes to humiliate to run a spell check on it before sending it out.
Instant karma..She tried to publicly humiliate her juniors and ended up getting a taste of her own medicine.
You call this email polite? Had it only been to point out a mistake, then that could still have been understandable if not acceptable. However, she clearly refers to their behaviour and nature, about which she could have had a private discussion with each of them individually, instead of doing this. She only did this to vent, and that's not professional. The wording also makes it clear that she has spoken to one of them, but not the others. It is a pity that law firms don't teach their partners about how to deal with a team.
People have employees to do the work for them. If they have to check and recheck everything the employee does, then the employee is useless. In this case, instead of firing, she has issued a reprimand internally, within her team. Some of the people copied on the email are superiors of the individuals concerned and mentioned. It will be their duty to further correct and properly manage them. She has not written this email as though to speak to the whole world. That has been done by whomever chose to leak it. I can show you, that the said leak has had a terrible impact on at least one of the boys mentioned. What was to be an internal course correction to be taken on board, and the reprimand forgotten by Monday, has become public shaming. https://x.com/Svyamm/status/1770694354044330183?s=20
Absolutely surprised by the stand being taken by people in support of the email. It is nothing short of unprofessional and ridiculous. The partner in question has been in the profession for over 20 years, but no, she has to belittle Associates to somehow prove a point to the rest of the team. This is shallow and unacceptable from someone who is supposedly a stalwart in the industry
The simple option could've been to fire them or ask them to leave, instead of publicly humiliating them which only and only serves 1 purpose- satisfying the ego of the partner with
The associates made a mistake. Others copied on the email were responsible for supervising and correcting them. On behaviour. On work product. The reprimand was for them too.it was an internal email for her team. It wasn’t meant for our eyes. Now, people hire staff to do the work. Not to be rude, and tell the seniormost partner that they should check the work before it goes out. If that’s the work product, such juniors should certainly be dismissed. No one pays good, hard earned money for crap work and bad attitude.
Simple question to all the AK supporters here- why not fire the kids instead of humiliating and ruining their confidence.
Were these kids so "influential" that an equity partner couldn't handle her team and had to call them out in front of everyone?
Another thing, if the market share calculation was so imp, why wasn't it checked at other levels.
Also, what was so catastrophic about making a mistake? Don't people make mistakes? Most of our fees comes from someone making a mistake somewhere. If people started churning out perfect work (which currently even AI is incapable of) lawyers would lose their jobs first.
This was nothing but an ego powerplay from a partner who values her own reputation over everything and treats here juniors like servants.
Her anger (not her tone or her specific words) would be somewhat justified if she was responding to a first cut sent for internal review to her, not the cut FILED with a regulator.
Avaantika needs to review everything leaving her desk a thousand times over. If there was a mistake in some math, it's her responsibility to catch it when Associates send the draft internally for review. Those Associates didn't sign on the draft filed with CCI, she or another partner did.
As someone on client side, I would be livid and fire them immediately. Simple professional responsibility aside, what exactly am I paying Partner rates and many billable hours for if this is the draft filed at the end of it?
If Avaantika has to review everything leaving her desk a thousand times over, she needn’t hire these well paid idiots to mess things up, she could do the work herself. By extension, Narayana Murthy also should check each programmers work before it leaves INFY. You are hired to do a job, well, and without complaint. If you don’t like it, if you can’t do it, leave. This is not the profession for you.
You sound like someone who hasn’t worked in a law firm. Reviewing work is a Partners job.
Also, Murthy is not comparable to her. Is the head of a vertical/manager at infy not reviewing the work of the subordinates? That is the parallel to be drawn here
Watch this video from NDTV Profit, where Avantika is interviewed alongside Nisha Oberoi from Trilegal. Observe the difference in how they speak, with respect to tone and tenor. 😐
If you read the email in detail you Will understand that’s it not only work quality issues but also work demeanour issues. For a partner to berate a senior because of him being disrespectful to his teammates, being sarcastic and throwing stinker at partners is actually taking a stand for the juniors who are subjected to such casual bullying. Passive aggressiveness and bullying is what she has called out.
If you think it’s only because of the work quality no it’s more of an attitude issue which led to such bad work quality and reason why she went all guns blazing. Had this been someone else with a proper working attitude the tone and the consequences would have been less severe.
If you see closely she is actually asking to not be disrespectful to teammates, not show passive aggression and not be sarcastic. Dont know how any of these are wrong
Personally so far I had heard only good things about the partner being supportive and not being toxic. So can’t judge on the face of it. There are lot of underlying issues and reasons for such an email. Given the attitude of the associate, no wonder why he was reprimanded this way (referring to his Instagram and twitter posts)
You couldn't have said it better! Your work can be okay and it can be improved, but you're attitude has to be at the right place. Juniors these days walk in with a sense of entitlement. Its important to be humble to grow in life.
She stood for her team and called out the persons attitude, which IMHO is rare these days.
What a load of rubbish. I don't know if it is only hapless law students who frequent this site, but anyone who has juniors reporting to them knows that it is impossible to review each word, especially some figures that the client must have sent. While I feel for the associates, one can't simply blame the supervisor and absolve these juniors of all responsibility.
A few of us who are now a bit senior in the profession flourished in an environment of empowerment (with all the regular aspects of a professional setting, including humility) which good seniors provided us.
However, when that same environment was passed on to the the latest generation, it translated into a sense of entitlement that they now possess. It's saddening to think that a cultural shift occurred so quickly in this profession where juniors feel they are entitled, and can continue in this profession with bad attitudes and sub-par work.
Happy to receive comments criticizing the above observation - but will be happy (also) if someone understands the issue.
Understand and agree, while some parts of the email are excessive, it was mostly meant to be an internal email/ discussion within the team to deal with a systemic attitude issue. Moreover, there is consistent lessening of work ethic in the newer associates as well as serious attitude issues and sense of entitlement. Law and the profession is demanding and you have to accept it.
As a junior lawyer I always understood the mission: Do the work without mistakes, and respect your seniors. If you make a mistake (which you will, invariably), say sorry, be humble, and don’t do it again. As a (relatively) senior lawyer, I expect the same from my juniors. I hire them, so I don’t have to do each and every thing myself. That’s why I’m sharing my income with them. If I DO have to review all work output, then the junior is useless, and must be told what he is doing wrong. If he still doesn’t listen, he must leave. What else can I say?
Also, from her email, it appears that the issues such as bullying she flags, she knew but ignored till this incident - they didn't matter then. But suddenly matter now.
That first guy in her mail must be a real pain to deal with. She likely stuffed it in for a long time and couldn't control her emotions when the guys arrogance started costing the clients. Nonetheless, she shouldn't have sent that email. Just fire the guy. Why the drama?
Extremely toxic, unreasonable, bad tempered and I'll mannered. Shouts at A0s for the smallest mistake, no mentorship, screams on them. How did she become equity ? And why is she not reprimanded yet.
Unfortunately, way too many partners (across all firms) are ill tempered, ill mannered and unreasonable. Until now, being a brilliant asshole has come with no consequences as long as your billings are high and you’re able to keep your clients happy. This needs to change.
This is a classic case on NLU vs Non-NLU discrimination, the person who is criticised the most is from an NLU whereas the author of the mail is from some low level law school. We NLUites worked hard to get into NLUs, so these non-NLU people despise us.
Please wake up to the reality! there is vasr horizon beyond NLU where competence and success is not based on or limited to your NLU degree! it's to ro move forward from your CLAT days and gloating on success from the past.
by way of full disclosure, I'm not from an NLU but still very successful!!
Agree to the rest of your points but if you were really very successful you would not be on Legally India, much less write that you are successful on Legally India
Ohh really? When did Jiggles become a NLU? Last I checked Sonipat has only one NLU. TWO OUT OF THE THREE MAHARATHIS are from Jindal Global Law School, Sonipat.
And you think NLU people are special? Ms. Avantika Kakkar joined a prestigious law school at a time when there were only three NLUs out of which two just opened their shops, thus presuming did not have a campus of their own.
ROFL, literally no one cares what law school you’re from in this profession. Some of the highest fee earning senior advocates at the Delhi high court went to Chaudhary Charan Singh University. You’re simply deluded.
I'm a victim of being harrassed, tortured and bullied by the funds trio. I have all evidence with me. I have recording of conversations, screenshots of emails of worst being written to me marking the entire team on purpose. I have evidence of bonus being cut vaguely and promotion being stopped.
Yet, having all this evidence with me ,I know what the consequences are if I raise my voice. Please let's not forget viral AZB resignation letter.
Change will begin if Avantika gets fired for her behaviour. There the onus of being held accountable for your actions will start and all partners in firms will fear putting their juniors through this.
Change will also begin when you speak up. We imagine a lot of consequences, but honestly it's always better to speak up and if needed move on. there's no dearth of opportunities in the world.
Easier said than done. There’s no conclusive evidence pointing to the fact that the people being berated in the email have leaked the email, but they would invariably end up bearing the brunt of this in some way. Its a vicious circle. The cost of speaking up is too high, but so is the cost of not speaking up.
There are a number of lessons for everyone here. Law firm partners need to learn how to give feedback. Gen Z needs to know that real law firm life isn’t an episode of Suits. It’s hard work and long hours.
Kakkar is well known for her unapologetic rudeness in the legal and client community. Only a bully knows another bully so well. Building a name in the field doesn’t give one a free pass to butcher your team mates publicly.
How easy it is to pass judgements, because you're not under fire, right? Someone else is.
Grow up world, and get a life. Get your houses in order (personal and professional) before you get to judge someone else.
As a partner, what she did is RIGHT, and those who are not privy to the facts, stay away. This should be the least of your concerns.
NO ONE ever called out the person who leaked a confidential email, which is meant only for the team. Its called a team for a reason. This is a massive trust issue. And THAT should have been the concern. If the person can't keep a team email confidential, how are they to be trusted with work? Or otherwise?
Worse shit happens in other places and people bury it 10 feet deep. Or ignore it. And here you are finding fault with a partner who called out juniors for their unprofessionalism and attitude. If you're telling me you've never been yelled at by a colleague, senior, or client, you're fooling yourself and everyone else.
I can name partners who are toxic on the inside, and make life miserable for their team, but are all decked up and smiles on the outside. I've worked with someone who screams their heart out and abuses you for no real reason, just to show who the boss is.
If you're touchy about criticism and feedbacks, sorry friends, please stay away from the professional circles.
If any of you even cared about the persons named in the email, their mental peace, wellbeing, career and life in general, you wouldn't be circulating the email, or reading it, or letting your tongue loose.
The reason why people shared it with others is not to gossip or threaten the career of these individuals but to showcase the reality of berating happening in a law firm. And CAM really for your sake please improve yourself. CAM has seen such a negative image in law schools and other law firms. Don't think that you or your way of work is not irreplaceable. It is. Foreign law firms, unemployed CAs, AI and what not!
Giving feedback about it personally, no. Humiliating someone in front of their colleagues, yes. If you follow your standards, then why are you being bothered about her bad behaviour being called out?
Market share data is pretty critical to the filing.
Any team can't and shouldn't rely on an associate to prepare it and finalise it. A senior level lawyer must must check the data no matter how cumbersome they find it.
If it's that important you must give it that much importance.
In my associate days even though I was excellent with handling data and maths my seniors never let out any work product out without running by the data once. At least once. They would simply ask for the excel sheet, check my calculations and the source of data (client, target or open source).
Understood AK being the practice head won't have had the time to check but what about the second rung partners/ PAs/ SAs. (Apparently the team has a practice of not hiring mid level associates/ SAs. That's such a stupid move. It will definitely cost you more in longer term.)
I totally agree. But this is a practice which is prevelant throughout the industry. They treat people like shit. Incompetent people who pretend to work (more than actually working), have zero inputs (other than beautification changes), suck-up max to the boss, are given promotions and big bonuses. The people who actually do good work but don't show off enough are subjected to taunts, ridicule and personal comments (which are highly problematic and unprofessional in nature). That makes people quit the industry and there is huge vacancy of good talent. In the end they have to rely on junior associates for work and all of the incompetent people just pass on the buck, till it reaches the person who can no longer pass the buck. Entire system is a scam. One day it will all come crashing down and burn.
Wonder where AK did her schooling from. Spelling mistakes by a partner are unacceptable. That too at a firm like CAM, which, in her own words, has been known for its "impeccable work". She got the spelling of "incompetent" wrong.
Heard CAM was a bad place to work but she seems to have spent most of her time at Khaitan before jumping ship to become Competition head at CAM. Here I thought Khaitan had the nicer Partners in general. Is it just bad everywhere? A very clueless and disillusioned A2 wrote this. Responses welcome.
I mean there are lateral hires everywhere; it's the same PAs and SAs roaming around firm to firm. Which is why I'm joining a Big4 - I'm taking a pay cut for the mental stability. Decently prestigious and looks good to get an MBA with this on the CV
1. Associates, need to get better. Both on the work front and behaviour front. While mordern- non-hierarchical structures and behaviour is good, there's sound value and reason in age old customs and practices.
2. Partners and their immediate reports (counsels/PAs), sure as hell, need to invest in training associates and no, this doesn't mean packing them off to do theoretical KM/CLE/leadership sessions.
3. Partners and other senior resources, managing teams and associates, should be told categorically, that bad behaviour with associates, is not ACCEPTABLE. Bad work? Just say bad work, once, twice and thrice and then be done with the associate. Don't shit over them - gets you nothing, and sure as hell, won't get them to work better.
4. Reverse reviews (juniors to seniors), should really be explored. Develop a conversation culture, where a senior is able to say bad work and the junior gets to say why and what they think the senior could have done better to help them do better work.
5. Resources with consistently bad feedback on behaviour (terror banda/Bandi hai), should almost invariably, never be made partner- unless they have a huge damn book, and are willing to service their own book with them tripling up as associates, Partners and PAs.
6. Associates, should buck up. Realise that this is not a game. Their work, affects their seniors reputation. Their health and life, even potentially.
7. Law firm management /top leadership should stop acting as if they don't read these comments and pick up suggestions, which seem remotely sensible. Instead of just playing the let it die down game and then eventually, this repeats all over again.
Wonder if the client to whom this work pertained is made aware of this catastrophe? :p keen on knowing what the founding partner has to say about this.
This entire thing has left a rather disgusting taste in one's mouth. There's a rule that says you have to treat fellow advocates with respect and courtesy. There is another rule that says an advocate cannot act in a manner that brings disrepute to the profession in general. There is cause. I will be writing to the Bar Council. Hope they do something. If they don't do something in a month I will follow up via writ if I am still disgusted by then.
Thats great of you, no sarcasm. Maybe if you start a petition on this or a separate thread, we can support and drum up support as well. Its only these kind of things that can put atleast a little bit of a second thought into these arrogant, pompous partners and mid levels.
I am writing this as a person who knows the partner and 2 of the juniors mentioned in the email and many others in the CC.
1. With regards to the mistake. People make mistakes and that is why things are checked again and again in a law firm when the stakes are high. And the stakes are high when disclosures are made to a regulator. In the current case, the responsibility lies both with the juniors and the partner leading the matter. While i don't expect AK (or her equivalent) in other firms to cross check every part of the data (and market share calculations can be extensive), the hands-on partner must have had checked this. While mistakes must be addressed, and culprits must be rebuked, it must not be turned in a circus with audience, which AK has done in this email. That is unprofessional. At best, the entire team should have got the load-down.
2. With regards the attitude approach - First i really appreciate AK addressing the issue. toxic behaviour not only damages overall moral, it also causes good resources to leave and makes training juniors harder. People who acts like God's gift to mankind in a team are largely the ones who are very problematic. Having said that, the feedback should not have gone out like this. As AK says, this should not be like a cinema where she is playing for the crowd. While it is important that the team knows that toxic members are dealt with, AK could have word with the members privately and then informed the team that the issue has been addressed, and if specific examples persist to privately bring them up with her and if necessary, the perpetrator. This is not to say that AK had not spoken to these guys earlier in a private conversation. If she did and the attitude didn't change, it was time to let these people go. That would be the professional way. While she stood up to bullying - she did it in a way which would make bullies around the world swell with pride. That's the sad part here.
Anyways, this will die down, and I hope AK continues to have the teams back, but in a more nuanced fashion. I hope folks like the people mentioned in the email learn their lessons.
It's a simple excel sheet job but prone to mistakes.
Always a good practice to keep the calculation in Excel sheet and have a senior cross check the data along with the formulas and calculation.
I wonder why no mid level associate/ SA/ PA cross checked the data and checked the calculation. It's not rocket science but has to be done meticulously because it's easy to make silly mistakes.
From time to time a partner will have to rely on juniors
Juniors in firms like CAM are well paid for a reason
If they can’t do their part appropriately they should be fired
Many times seniors find it hard to fire people and out of misplaced compassion end up berating them instead as a punishment
It never work
Just fire the damn guy with a smile instead- berating won’t change him
https://x.com/Svyamm/status/1770694354044330183?s=20
If a ship sinks, it is the captain who gets guillotined first. Their literal responsibility is for the team. That is their primary job description. You cannot reap all the benefits and externalise the costs.
I do not know how big the competition practice at CAM is but pretty sure that the partner does not have 7.5 lakh people employed in the team. Sure, your argument works for Ratan Tata but stop giving ridiculous examples.
Companies are paying big bucks because they trust the said partner.
It is a spineless thing for a partner to not back his team no matter how badly they fucked up.
This partner in question is paid an insane amount of money to send out documents that reflect "excellence and value", despite which she literally didn't bother to check the documents and the math that went out. She IS the lower management you talk of. Partners going around LI pretending to be entrepreneurs is hilarious. Y'all are wageslaves like the rest of us, act like it.
Yes they do. When you on sea and you piss off the crew and lose their confidence. They don't guillotine you, but they do make you walk a plank. It is clear that a partnership is the only ship you've ever served on.
how to convince a law firm or even a chamber to give him even 1/3 the salary while everyone is worried he may leak emails (or who knows maybe audios/videos too?)
Even if they are not fired immediately to avoid more publicity they will be let go of sooner than later
You know this if you worked at any organisation forget a law firm
These kids need to take responsibility for their actions instead of finding excuses in the name of toxicity.
When a Partner relies on your work, they put their reputation on the line because they trust you.
AK...way to go girl. You got the shizz!
(Not grandstanding on the ethics/ HR aspects of team management - am sure clients/ litigation law firms/ other legal service units - all have some crappy situations too)
Don’t work in law if you think otherwise
Based on the logic of all the other rookie associates, who are downvoting anything in favour of AK, it should LegallyIndia's fault that such a false comment (i.e., the comment claiming caste remark) was even allowed to be published.
PS - this email, in my opinion, is the least toxic thing that any boss could ever say to their junior. Out of all the toxic things that could have been highlighted about the law firm life, this hardly deserves to be controversial. What else do you expect to hear if you not only behave unprofessionally but also fuck up the work product?
PPS - READ, because when we READ, we REMEMBER!
- Year of graduation: 2003
- College: ILS
- Legal publications: A book with an ISBN, but no publisher mentioned (Google suggests that the publishing house is called "Snow White Publications" and based in Mumbai).
- Other achievements: "She is a published novelist"
https://www.cyrilshroff.com/people/avaantika-kakkar/
- Publisher : Line By Lion Publications; First edition (23 July 2016)
: https://www.amazon.in/Place-Called-Delirium-Avaantika-Kakkar-ebook/dp/B01IZ4F8Q8/ref=sr_1_1?crid=36EKCCDYJJBHQ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.AyDUFXSOZjAAI8JYn5PXKG9IFcKUUyyqiK5EyImMiZHGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.eCWdba82I3dIeMMsT47rrDJJm_KglI4y-xdsY4bzJNI&dib_tag=se&keywords=a+place+called+delirium&qid=1710998124&s=books&sprefix=a+place+called+delirium%2Cstripbooks%2C180&sr=1-1
What a dick move to leak an internal email
juniors need to be reliable and go find another job, this holds true even where people are paid 25k per month, but especially if you are paid the best salary in the country
Hope this clarifies
Bhai tere logic se toh - market share associate dekhega, corporate info SA dekhega, substantial arguments PA dekhega. Aur tu [assuming, you're a partner] kya dekhega? Client ka paisa? Uss se kharidi hui shauharat? Get real dude.
Unfortunately - most law firm partners today are first to steal all the credit when things go well, but when shit goes south - blame the team. I wonder how these buffoons sleep at night. Truly disturbing that we're living among such disgusting, immoral fools - who are "mentors" to the next generation of lawyers. Lol.
P.s. - not from CAM. But effected by foolish partners, PAs with a similar attitude.
If you get paid for work know your place and do it
If you are an associate in a T1 firm and expect recognition etc you are a fool
Just do your work keeping your head down you make partner in 10 years hopefully
If you want to be the star overnight go open your own law firm
While you are working for a partner your job is to make that partner successful or you are out
Always remember that there are others eagerly waiting to take your place
Don’t delude yourself
None of this is rocket science, it just requires diligence- if you don’t have that go find another profession 😄
Who are you devta/devi
Its not humanly possible
They have to hire people whose work does not require much review
And fire those whose work needs a great deal of review
Buck stops at the Partner. When she is signing draft for filing, she is responsible for every letter in it.
So she will choose the right team
So you know who gets fired
Hint: its not the partner 😂
From what it seems they are there fair and square. The firm needed these maharathis as much as they need them. Stop calling hardwork luck
Drop this attitude. The firm is lucky to have hardworking associates. In the US, employers are seen as depending on associates as the associates on the firm.
#90skidsarethebest
Instant karma..She tried to publicly humiliate her juniors and ended up getting a taste of her own medicine.
The simple option could've been to fire them or ask them to leave, instead of publicly humiliating them which only and only serves 1 purpose- satisfying the ego of the partner with
Were these kids so "influential" that an equity partner couldn't handle her team and had to call them out in front of everyone?
Another thing, if the market share calculation was so imp, why wasn't it checked at other levels.
Also, what was so catastrophic about making a mistake? Don't people make mistakes? Most of our fees comes from someone making a mistake somewhere. If people started churning out perfect work (which currently even AI is incapable of) lawyers would lose their jobs first.
This was nothing but an ego powerplay from a partner who values her own reputation over everything and treats here juniors like servants.
Avaantika needs to review everything leaving her desk a thousand times over. If there was a mistake in some math, it's her responsibility to catch it when Associates send the draft internally for review. Those Associates didn't sign on the draft filed with CCI, she or another partner did.
As someone on client side, I would be livid and fire them immediately. Simple professional responsibility aside, what exactly am I paying Partner rates and many billable hours for if this is the draft filed at the end of it?
Also, Murthy is not comparable to her. Is the head of a vertical/manager at infy not reviewing the work of the subordinates? That is the parallel to be drawn here
https://youtube.com/watch?v=0bwiuHlqkWk
If you read the email in detail you Will understand that’s it not only work quality issues but also work demeanour issues. For a partner to berate a senior because of him being disrespectful to his teammates, being sarcastic and throwing stinker at partners is actually taking a stand for the juniors who are subjected to such casual bullying. Passive aggressiveness and bullying is what she has called out.
If you think it’s only because of the work quality no it’s more of an attitude issue which led to such bad work quality and reason why she went all guns blazing. Had this been someone else with a proper working attitude the tone and the consequences would have been less severe.
If you see closely she is actually asking to not be disrespectful to teammates, not show passive aggression and not be sarcastic. Dont know how any of these are wrong
She stood for her team and called out the persons attitude, which IMHO is rare these days.
A few of us who are now a bit senior in the profession flourished in an environment of empowerment (with all the regular aspects of a professional setting, including humility) which good seniors provided us.
However, when that same environment was passed on to the the latest generation, it translated into a sense of entitlement that they now possess. It's saddening to think that a cultural shift occurred so quickly in this profession where juniors feel they are entitled, and can continue in this profession with bad attitudes and sub-par work.
Happy to receive comments criticizing the above observation - but will be happy (also) if someone understands the issue.
by way of full disclosure, I'm not from an NLU but still very successful!!
And you think NLU people are special? Ms. Avantika Kakkar joined a prestigious law school at a time when there were only three NLUs out of which two just opened their shops, thus presuming did not have a campus of their own.
Yet, having all this evidence with me ,I know what the consequences are if I raise my voice. Please let's not forget viral AZB resignation letter.
Change will begin if Avantika gets fired for her behaviour. There the onus of being held accountable for your actions will start and all partners in firms will fear putting their juniors through this.
Kakkar is well known for her unapologetic rudeness in the legal and client community. Only a bully knows another bully so well. Building a name in the field doesn’t give one a free pass to butcher your team mates publicly.
No one is a saint in this scenario.
Grow up world, and get a life. Get your houses in order (personal and professional) before you get to judge someone else.
As a partner, what she did is RIGHT, and those who are not privy to the facts, stay away. This should be the least of your concerns.
NO ONE ever called out the person who leaked a confidential email, which is meant only for the team. Its called a team for a reason. This is a massive trust issue. And THAT should have been the concern. If the person can't keep a team email confidential, how are they to be trusted with work? Or otherwise?
Worse shit happens in other places and people bury it 10 feet deep. Or ignore it. And here you are finding fault with a partner who called out juniors for their unprofessionalism and attitude. If you're telling me you've never been yelled at by a colleague, senior, or client, you're fooling yourself and everyone else.
I can name partners who are toxic on the inside, and make life miserable for their team, but are all decked up and smiles on the outside. I've worked with someone who screams their heart out and abuses you for no real reason, just to show who the boss is.
If you're touchy about criticism and feedbacks, sorry friends, please stay away from the professional circles.
If any of you even cared about the persons named in the email, their mental peace, wellbeing, career and life in general, you wouldn't be circulating the email, or reading it, or letting your tongue loose.
SHAME ON YOU ALL.
In any profession, if you can't deliver good work, then you either need to buck up or leave.
Its so easy to label things as toxic, without actually understanding or being privy to facts.
There is NO justification for sharing it - whoever shared it has scarred the people more than the email would've ever did. Period.
No one is indispensable - however, that doesn't give anyone a free pass to harass people or deliver poor quality work.
GenZ needs to stop being touchy about everything said and done which doesn't align with their expectations.
Any team can't and shouldn't rely on an associate to prepare it and finalise it. A senior level lawyer must must check the data no matter how cumbersome they find it.
If it's that important you must give it that much importance.
In my associate days even though I was excellent with handling data and maths my seniors never let out any work product out without running by the data once. At least once. They would simply ask for the excel sheet, check my calculations and the source of data (client, target or open source).
Understood AK being the practice head won't have had the time to check but what about the second rung partners/ PAs/ SAs. (Apparently the team has a practice of not hiring mid level associates/ SAs. That's such a stupid move. It will definitely cost you more in longer term.)
Nobody's talent, if so, gives them a free reign to treat other people like shit.
Ahahahahahahaha
Are you a lawyer? What world do you live in? “Police Case” Ahahahahahaha 🤣
1. Associates, need to get better. Both on the work front and behaviour front. While mordern- non-hierarchical structures and behaviour is good, there's sound value and reason in age old customs and practices.
2. Partners and their immediate reports (counsels/PAs), sure as hell, need to invest in training associates and no, this doesn't mean packing them off to do theoretical KM/CLE/leadership sessions.
3. Partners and other senior resources, managing teams and associates, should be told categorically, that bad behaviour with associates, is not ACCEPTABLE. Bad work? Just say bad work, once, twice and thrice and then be done with the associate. Don't shit over them - gets you nothing, and sure as hell, won't get them to work better.
4. Reverse reviews (juniors to seniors), should really be explored. Develop a conversation culture, where a senior is able to say bad work and the junior gets to say why and what they think the senior could have done better to help them do better work.
5. Resources with consistently bad feedback on behaviour (terror banda/Bandi hai), should almost invariably, never be made partner- unless they have a huge damn book, and are willing to service their own book with them tripling up as associates, Partners and PAs.
6. Associates, should buck up. Realise that this is not a game. Their work, affects their seniors reputation. Their health and life, even potentially.
7. Law firm management /top leadership should stop acting as if they don't read these comments and pick up suggestions, which seem remotely sensible. Instead of just playing the let it die down game and then eventually, this repeats all over again.
If CAM asks her she will do it
Then poor fellows will be eased out in next 3-4 months as public moves on 😂
Irony writ large
1. With regards to the mistake. People make mistakes and that is why things are checked again and again in a law firm when the stakes are high. And the stakes are high when disclosures are made to a regulator. In the current case, the responsibility lies both with the juniors and the partner leading the matter. While i don't expect AK (or her equivalent) in other firms to cross check every part of the data (and market share calculations can be extensive), the hands-on partner must have had checked this. While mistakes must be addressed, and culprits must be rebuked, it must not be turned in a circus with audience, which AK has done in this email. That is unprofessional. At best, the entire team should have got the load-down.
2. With regards the attitude approach - First i really appreciate AK addressing the issue. toxic behaviour not only damages overall moral, it also causes good resources to leave and makes training juniors harder. People who acts like God's gift to mankind in a team are largely the ones who are very problematic. Having said that, the feedback should not have gone out like this. As AK says, this should not be like a cinema where she is playing for the crowd. While it is important that the team knows that toxic members are dealt with, AK could have word with the members privately and then informed the team that the issue has been addressed, and if specific examples persist to privately bring them up with her and if necessary, the perpetrator. This is not to say that AK had not spoken to these guys earlier in a private conversation. If she did and the attitude didn't change, it was time to let these people go. That would be the professional way. While she stood up to bullying - she did it in a way which would make bullies around the world swell with pride. That's the sad part here.
Anyways, this will die down, and I hope AK continues to have the teams back, but in a more nuanced fashion. I hope folks like the people mentioned in the email learn their lessons.