Guys let's talk about APTEL almost all lawyers says that it's the most lucrative tribunal let's talk about the fees charged by lawyers at APTEL I know it depends according to the complexity of the case but what's the average fees charged by lawyers who are famous I am not talking about the top one's but the one who have established good practise at APTEL and how is fees different compared to other tribunal fees ?

I suspect this is trollbate, and there would probably be arguments against feeding it, but... okay. Conversations on how to make our society a more equitable place and how to level the playing-field aren't relevant to law, lawyers, lawyering, law schools or law students. How wonderful! Law can, after all, remain the preserve of the elites in India, thanks to disingenuous nonsense like this. At the same time, many of these same elites will go to England and the U.S., and with not a thought about their hypocrisy, join the ineffective liberal do-gooders in those environments in giving big lectures to everyone in the world about greater diversity, whenever a law firm recruiter or pupillage committee member in a barrister's chambers doesn't think they (these Indian "elites", with their NLU tags) are not "good enough" compared to white, male, able-bodied, heterosexual, non-working class, independent-school educated (Eton/Harrow/Stowe) Oxbridge/RG/Ivy graduates. I shouldn't tell you where to shove this opinion about the relevancy of this topic, or the mods will really not publish this (putting myself in their shoes, I'd say some doubts are already kicking in...).

He can, on occasion, come across as a bit abrasive, it is true (but so did Lee Kuan Yew, and see what he did to benefit Singapore (an unfortunate example, I know, considering the subject of our discussion is a scholar of a democratic constitution, but this cropped up in my head, will try to think of a better one)). But maybe this is the result of a less serious character flaw than you think. Maybe he just finds it hard to grasp that what is obvious to him isn't obvious to others? I also don't quite understand where this "he alone knows what is good for education" stuff is coming from? As far as educational methods are concerned (e.g., getting students to read lots of theory and political philosophy), might it not be that he has seen what he (and perhaps many others) believes to have worked at other institutions (particularly Oxford), thinks it is worth emulating and, in line with what was said above, finds it hard to grasp why others don't get it (the fact that this is an established method of good teaching/learning) as well?

This question is a bit symplistic, if I am being very honest. This is because there are a number of possible interpretations of that question, especially of the phrase "academic perspective", each of which could be equally valid. Therefore, in order to help people better answer your question, it would be of the greatest assistance if you could clarify which one (or more) of the interpretations you are going by. The ones I have thought of (others, please add whatever I have missed) are:

1. Academic standards (whether marking of projects, exams and the like is strict/confirmation of absence of grade inflation, amount of studying that needs to be done per week/per day, quality of faculty (as classroom teachers), academic - extracurricular activities balance).

2. How good the NLSIU curriculum is at preparing for a career in academia in India and beyond.

3. Combination of no. 1 above and how well academics who work there (i.e., the faculty) mentor/guide students in terms of their (non-academia-related) professional career aspirations after law school (which include, but are certainly not limited to, working in India in a law firm job, working in litigation, working abroad (which in most cases means London) in a law firm).

4. Faculty qualifications (how many Rhodes Scholars, how many LLM + PhD graduates among the faculty, how many of the faculty combine impressive academic qualifications with industry experience) and research reputation (quality of publications, number of publications in reputed journals and so on).

I am aware of his views and do not agree with all of them. The most important one being that he alone knows what is good for education. I didn't find him a good teacher either and before his defenders jump in the fray, I still scored the highest grade in his paper as well as that of most other teachers who taught me.

Very rigorous. Even social science is taken seriously where you have various original texts to study. When you study sociology, for example, you'll discuss a text over 4-5 hours. In NLS however, texts are crammed and sometimes, you finish 2 texts in a day.

, someone who isn't a student but on the other side

its not all happening in a vacuum. You have to ask what the diagnostic criteria are and if theyre actually helping us avoid medicalising regular kids who would grow up to be gay or lesbian.

Here are the diagnostic criteria from the american psychological association, 6 out of these 8 is supposed to indicate gender dysphoria in children:

- -A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
- -In boys (assigned gender), a strong preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong preference for wearing only typical masculine clothing and a strong resistance to the wearing of typical feminine clothing
- -A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play
- -A strong preference for the toys, games or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender
- -A strong preference for playmates of the other gender
- -In boys (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically masculine toys, games, and activities and a strong avoidance of rough-and-tumble play; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically feminine toys, games, and activities
- -A strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy
- -A strong desire for the physical sex characteristics that match one’s experienced gender

Heres the link: https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

now right away I think 6 of those 8 things are just- disagreeing with gender stereotypes. cross dressing in kids is very common. If youre a boy- your mom probably has some childhood photos of you where youre trying on her clothes or youre trying on make up or something. If youre a girl- you probably remember being a kid and thinking frilly dresses are scratchy and wanting to wear boy clothes cause theyre easy to run around in.
strong preference for cross gender roles in make believe? I liked being the husband when i played house with friends- The man got to do interesting things like go to work and come home and then demand that his wife do things for him. Who wouldnt want that? Im sure there are boys who were similarly drawn to being the woman because the kid playing the wife gets to run around in the kitchen set and play with baby dolls . That doesnt prove that someone is trans- these are kids!- theyre literally playing pretend!
preference of playmates of the other gender! so little boys and little girls cant want to play with each other! most of my play mates were male! they were my best friends cause they liked the same cartoons and they were roughly my size and in my locality- thats all it takes for kids to make someone their best friend.
Boys avoiding rough and tumble play and girls not wanting to do feminine play? are we joking? some boys just dont like getting hurt- most kids dont like getting hurt. Most girls I knew would rather be out riding their bikes than sitting at home pouring tea. this is again- adherence to stereotypes.
Young girls and boys dont know what their sexual anatomy is about- unless theyve been told its dirty by the elders in their house or unless theyve been molested- they likely wouldnt feel any disgust at their private parts. I didnt know what man parts looked like until I was quite a bit older- I bet most children dont know what the opposite sex's private parts look like. So its not some inner sense of "oh I should have a penis instead of a vagina". Children dont think that clearly. but according to the DSM 5 this is a diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria in kids too.

6 out of these 8- you can just get that by being a gay, lesbian, autistic, wild kid who doesnt like stereotypical things- its called having a personality. Not liking ones private parts can be an indication of abuse and is likely that far more than some inner gender soul.

But this is what all of "youth gender medicine" is built on. You meet 6/8 of these criteria- you get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria , you get put on puberty blockers, then 98% of the time you get moved on to cross sex hormones and then surgeries. Of course youre gonna have misdiagnosed a lot of kids. Of course the detrans rates are booming. this is not medical diagnosis- this is reading tea leaves. based on this we're supposed to be giving cancer drugs and castration drugs to young children who dont know and cannot understand what the consequences for their health and lifestyle would be?

Gender identity and dysphoria is supposed to be this mystical inexplicable thing- and its "reductive" to say its about stereotypes- but the DSM criteria sure seem to be based on stereotypes no?

its insane. Read the cass review. its long but its worth it. Listen to the shellenberger tapes on wpath and listen to people who left tavistock clinic under protest. The doctors knew what was going on- they were joking about transing the gay away.

All young trans identified people can benefit from more care. That’s a silly argument. We don’t prescribe medicine and surgeries and call it “life saving” on the off chance that it works. Imagine another disease where the patient is able to self diagnose and then essentially self medicate- get exactly the drugs and surgeries they want. You can’t imagine it. This only happens in cosmetics.

We prescribe medicine and surgeries after clinical trials and long term follow up and rigorous diagnostic tests and we know that it will work. It’s called evidence based medicine.

No child can consent to this stuff given how serious this is. Even if some might feel better in the immediate aftermath - they cannot meaningfully consent and they’re often not even informed about all the risks. Thinking we should still do it is thinking that “do no harm” shouldn’t be the first principle of medical practice. And thinking that there should be freedom to experiment on children outside of clinical trials.

The studies are in - it’s not just the class review, it’s all the systematic evidence reviews done by Nordic countries , it’s European countries all rolling this back - there is no proof that puberty blockers and hormones and surgeries prevent suicide. This is a medical scandal.

It’s not - I put up and study and you put up a study and we have to call it even. We can actually read studies to think through whether we buy the methods or the interpretation. Or maybe they don’t teach that at university anymore. In any case your link leads to a self reported survey that still doesn’t support your point of view. If adult transgendered people are committing suicide despite transition - why is transitioning life saving care ?

That’s what the NCBI study showed - that suicidality doesn’t reduce after transition.

Did you even read that study?

These are adult transgendered people. Presumably they’ve started transition. Why then are they still committing suicide ? What are the comorbidities ? Is this a self report or are these tracking emergency visits like the NCBI study ?

The lie isn’t that there isn’t suicide. The lie is that there is child suicide and that transitioning prevents Suicide. There is no proof of either. The study you’ve cited doesn’t prove your point.

You’re only moderating tone on one side. You’ve been berating me to be kind because you’ve assumed I must be fundamentally unkind to not automatically buy into gender mania. You haven’t once considered anything the other guy is saying to be unkind or cruel even though it is demonstrably so. You don’t moderate him.

I have had to navigate this entire exchange thinking I will be censored because even before one post you showed your bias where you assume people will be bigoted and hateful. Why is that ? Consider that you’re not as pure as you think you are.

Consider also that for those of us who have been on this side of the debate for so long - and we’ve been consistently shut down because we’re allegedly “bigoted” and “hateful” and being told to shut up and not think and “be kind”- that kind of grandstanding about “kindness” particularly stings.

If you thought children were being mutilated and harmed en masse, if you thought women were being raped and assaulted and murdered and violated, if you thought the few opportunities given to women in short lists and sports were now being taken away, in fact the very language for women to articulate their collective struggles was now deemed “phobic”. And you had been trying to tell people- and instead every time you tried to speak you had to face being called a bigot and hateful and being censored and be told you were unkind all because you cared enough to educate yourself - consider how measured your words would be.

I think terfs on twitter are remarkably composed given they’re constantly being told by an online mob to “choke on trans girld*ck” you have zero clue what it’s been like for those of us who have been aware of these harms for a long long time. Just go look up “terf” on twitter and see all the abuse. That’s why you can’t imagine why were agitated or why we might resent being told to be kind by someone who hasn’t even bothered to understand our positions before scolding us. Doing that - that’s bigoted if anything. Be kind is the current day version of “you’re so shrill”. It’s sexist nonsense. Go on and find one truly unkind thing I’ve said.- I’ll defend all of it.

The other side doesn’t have a response. I’ve been in the same argument a hundred times now. The other side never produces evidence and never actually bothers debating or considering what terfs are saying. They just want to shame us as bigots and silence us because this whole movement is built on lies, deception and a fundamentally flawed understanding of what good people do. I’ll bet money. There won’t be a response.

We don’t fundamentally agree with each other on anything. I know you want to think everyone’s good - especially the men who silence women- but it’s just not true. There really are people who want to harm others and there really are useful idiots who enable them.

The only person who had had to face adhominem on this thread constantly is me. If you really go back and read the posts you’ll see that but you likely won’t.

Can't both be true? That the medical establishment is perhaps giving out drugs too readily nowadays to kids who are too young, while also accepting that some young trans people might benefit from more care?

Suicides appear to be real and not a lie (though research on both sides will always have a difficult time isolating causes and correlation, much like the link you shared also):

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/transpop-suicide-press-release/

Thanks for your considered response and links. If someome from the 'other camp' has a considered non trollish response trying to find common ground, let's hear it.

> You cannot be accusing me of hate and ignorance and policing my tone when you cannot honestly say youve considered and read any of the literature ive brought up in this exchange before forming an opinion.

Moderating tone and stopping toxicity is actually one of the main points of moderation, so thank you for making your point in a more balanced manner. It would help the strength of the 'Terf' side if the more vocal ones on Twitter stopped assuming that all people disagreeing with them must be woman-haters or 'religious' crazy cult people, as it would behove the twitter trans activists from bashing terfs as transphobes or out of touch.

There are probably more things both sides agree on than disagree on.

That's why tone and the way you say should be important to mods, not just what you say - because the real harm both sides cause is to stop debate, because it gets replaced with ad hominem personal attacks where facts don't matter anymore.

Do these Managing Partner type people expect everyone to call them Sir?!?!

Why is a so called ‘senior partner’ calling a fellow partner sir?!? How is this a professional Organization if such Ji Hazoori is still the norm! Do these younger partners also insist everyone calls them sir! Residents of such ivory towers I must say!

Arre MS bhai ke partners…. Please to tell us how much is the equity ownership for all model tentatively throwing up for you all? He is making claims on public media that it is professionally owned by all partners. Please spill the beans.

Chotte sardar is driving i7- aap log kya chala rahein ho!!

I interned in one of the teams in SRL's Mumbai office recently. It was an online internship. They did not give me any article writing work. On the first day of my internship, they told interns would be given research work only, and that we would not be given any drafting work.

I have gotten 900s rank and allotted bsc nujs and I am aiming for corp law in future, considering other options that I have r hnlu and nluo what should I do? I love kolkata and was seriously aiming for nujs only because of it's corp law placements but seeing the recent thread here where people said they won't get corp placements I am scared, what to do?

I feel you're a kid who asked this question and then answered it yourself to see if people agree or disagree.

It's okay to have such dreams. While your logic to buy a Merc at 25 with "projected net worth" is completely flawed, I appreciate your ambitions. You can definitely buy a German in your career if you stay long enough, but not so soon for sure.

That too a job in EY. So very sad. Same for the deaths of the girl and other guys. You’ve also had multiple deaths of JGLS students over the years in car accidents. The problem in places like Punjab, Haryana and NCR is that you have these wide highways with cars going at high speeds, but very dim lighting. It’s easy to hit other cars.

Maybe the quality of recrutiers is actually patethtic nowdays. Egotistic HRs and admins like you are brimming in law firms and companies who leave no stone unturned to look down upon students not from these colleges. You would reject us right off the bat upon knowing which college we are from andd instead consider NLU snowflkes with only knowledge of being binary. Honestly, look beyond the horizon, the world is much bigger what you are made to see.

@Khyber: Hi, I am looking for some info about NFSU Ahmedabad and Delhi that I couldn't find from their website. If you happen to know who are the faculty members at these places who specialise on corporate and financial laws, can you please name them? The website does name the faculty but wasn't clear on their specialisation. Seniority doesn't matter, I just want their names so that I can get in touch with them for some work. Thank you.