“And we all know how that 1 is selected. So not worth going through the rigour, only to be rejected cause you didn't have the "quality" they want. And even after that, your PhD submission to be withheld for "quality" reasons. It's an opaque process.”

How do you all this, oh wise one? Please enlighten the rest of us.

Dear fellow. If you go looking for a strawman, you will always find one. But, at the very least, you can do others the courtesy of reading their words before accusing them of “glazing” something. All I did was answer the question raised in the previous comment while offering my own perspective (speculative but based on certain facts) on the apparent difference between PhD vacancies advertised and filled at NLSIU. I do not claim to be definitive on the matter and neither can you for it requires us to have facts that only NLSIU has. And my own experience with NLSIU is that they do not prefer to share as much information as a public institution like them ought to. As for the RTI, sure, feel free to think what you already do. I only answered that point because I found it amusing to have the data that I received from my RTI application metaphorically shoved at my digital face.

Now to come to the more serious of your contestations. I see little basis for comparing the situation in one university with another, especially between those that operate at such different scales. Compared to DU, NLSIU is, in every single respect, a smaller institute. Fewer students, fewer teachers, fewer programmes, and yes, fewer PhD vacancies. Can the same be true in ensuring fewer applicants? I do not know. But it is worth considering that in a country the size of India, distance between one’s home and their prospective university can and does play a role in where they are able to apply. It may seem surprising but traveling far for education/work can generate expenses and anxieties that not every one can easily overcome.

Curiously enough, NLSIU has not enabled reservation in its PhD admission. I am not sure whether and how this is permissible but I am hoping there will be more discussion on this.

As for the comparison with CSLG/CILS in JNU, again, it is a question of institutional autonomy. I am myself surprised that NLSIU, a state university, has more autonomy than JNU, a central university, in deciding how many vacancies to fill. Now what can we learn from CSLG/CILS filling in more seats than NLSIU? That CSLG/CILS is better? That CSLG/CILS is producing great research? Or that NLSIU is more discerning? That NLSIU aims for quality over quantity? None of these, either for or against one of them, can be directly inferred from PhD admission data. Any such assessment would require a more careful analysis of student/faculty research output and that is beyond the scope of this conversation.

But, then again, filling seats is only part of the story. There is also the little matter of actually doing original research that can stand the scrutiny of one’s intellectual community. Few will dispute (and fewer still among the university teachers) that the quality of research in social sciences (including law) in India is really quite abysmal. For sure, much is produced but little is contributed to the public and academic discourse. There are many reasons for this and the quality of students is only one of them. I am myself not interested in blaming students alone for this ongoing scholastic tragedy.

Finally, you find it “hard to believe” that NLSIU could only find one suitable candidate in law last year; evidently, NLSIU does not. In the absence of other relevant facts, one really cannot say which one of you is less hard to believe.

Hi. While I do agree with you, I would add that for a university that was founded in 1986, NLSIU should have been ahead of the curve here. 4 seats in law is disproportionate with the strength of their teaching faculty. I have already mentioned in my other comment here that a career in academia is something a majority of students of law appear to be interested in. That fact does allow NLSIU to be off the hook, but only partially. For it cannot be denied that not only NLSIU took an awfully long time to focus on legal research and towards developing a sell-funded doctoral programme, it also never really considered legal research as part of its institutional mission. Arguably, other NLUs, especially the older ones, are also guilty of this intellectual myopia. Research matters because ideas/concepts matter, and because every judicial prononucement and our own quotidian sensibilities of what is common-sensical relies on a certain understadning of those concepts. The kind of jurisprudence and political discourse that prevails in India cannot be reformed until it receives a well-argued critique. The failure to privilege research as a core part of institutional identity is one aspect in which, for once unfortunately, NLUs are all too similar with other so-called elite institutions in India, like IITs and IIMs.

This excuse of "lack of interest" in academia is absolutely false and misleading. DU recently received 650 applications for PhD. All of them either NET/JRF. So, people saying there's lack of interest is absolutely false. Also, everyone is well aware that preference will be given to alumni. Moreover, NLS is not even elite in India, let alone the World. You guys glaze too much. Let's be honest, in foreign universities atleast the selection is open where you definitely have to speak to advisors beforehand and get their permission to apply. Here you apply, pay, work hard and then find out you aren't selected cause you didn't 'speak' to the 'right' faculty.

Absolutely incorrect.

First, stop glazing NLS.

Second, just because you "claim" to have filed the RTI, there's no way to prove it was actually you.

Third, recently DU had their PhD interviews, do you know how many people applied ? 650 ! And even these were JRF/NET qualified. So, If people are not applying to NLS. NLS seems to be the problem.

Fourth, JNU has two departments, the law & governance one, and the international legal studies one. Both, received around 100-150 applicants this year, JRF only for the law & governance, and in return, they filled out their complete vacancy. NLS not even filling the remaining 3 seats is laughable. And don't tell me it's because of "quality". I find it hard to believe that NLS couldn't even manage to find 3 quality aspirants who appeared in the interview ? There are people with significant work experience in legal research, people who have done clerkships with SC judges, people who have even done their masters from oxbridge and not selected just cause they didn't have any inside pull.

So, the clear fact remains. NLS is gatekeeping PhD in their institute, on the basis of false "quality" control. Btw, if you remember there have already been reports of the higher ups sitting on already completed PhD thesis.

83 candidates and can only manage to select 1.. that's too hard a pill to swallow.. even for Harvard Law.

Sir/ma'am thing is the least of the problems here. The entire ragging thing is a relatively minor problem at NLUO. Here, the biggest concern is getting dragged into mediocrity due to the crazy peer pressure to oppose any kind of seriousness or grind. You'll be pressured into partying or paying for freshers', farewells, etc. If you listen to the wrong seniors or batchmates here, you're fucked.

I am a partner in a law firm. I can tell you that most firms look for work ethics, attitude and law school level of knowledge of law for folks who have just graduated. Less than 2 PQE or some such. So don’t think twice if you want to switch.

I just hired someone who was a judge for 2 years and no Corp experience. Best decision ever and one of the best associates I have worked with.

Somehow I do not think IIT Kharagpur cares enough about the social sciences to actually run a comprehensive programme. The one that they have recently started, Master's in Public Policy Law and Governance << https://gateoffice.iitkgp.ac.in/mpplg/ >>, seems a desperate attempt to join the trend of offering expensive (over-priced?) public policy programmes that focus on working professionals and who ultimately turn out to be government officials most of the time.

As for IIT Delhi, they appear to have a decent faculty << https://spp.iitd.ac.in/faculty >> and they have also focused on doctoral research in public policy. But it is too early to assess its value. Being an IIT and being in the national capital certainly helps though.

The consensus is that nobody cares. MPP is the most shat-on programme in NLSIU. Alumni network is non existent, and so is placements. Academic rigour is there, if you include fighing with the admin for acco as rigour. As with all courses at NLS, the fee is unreasonably high. And MPP Programme seems to be completely cut off from the rest of the student body. Verdict: Hell naw

Hey, don't worry, coming from personal experience, I got somewhat similar marks to yours in 10th and 12th, cleared CLAT with an AIR of 500 something and doing very well in my law school, so put your head down and work hard and equally smart. I am sure you will do well, best of luck!

dont worry about board marks. In my time, both the 10th grade and 12th grade boards got cancelled- our school openly admitted that they gave the curriculum board 'randomized numbers' for each student. I was given 80% for both 10th and 12th grade. Meanwhile I landed T1. It's a scam.

1. S&R - 1.25 crores PA

2. KcO - 1.2 crores PA

3. CAM - 1.1 crores PA

4. AZB - 1.2 crores PA

5. JSA - 90 lakhs PA

6. Saraf - 90 lakhs PA

7. TT&A - 95 lakhs PA

8. Luthra - 80 lakh PA

9. Trilegal - 1.3 crores PA

10. LKS - 75 lakhs PA

I believe 'headnote' is originally British terminology (it is certainly the term they have been using for a long while). Some people tend to think that the use of Americanisms 'contaminates' (or somehow dilutes the quality of) our (in some ways similar-to-British) legal system's discourse. The logic behind this thinking is not very clear to me, TBH.

Oh, you got me wrong. I agree with you about the accessibility requirement being primary over any concern for manipulation of the judgement text that can be cross-checked quite easily. I just wanted to point out a technical fact when someone wrote that the PDFs from Westlaw etc. cannot be edited, that's all. Given the huge amount of discrimination that the visually challenged people already face in legal education and profession in this country, I would support whatever it takes to help them be treated equitably.

Interviews were going on until this week. I am aware of that. Normally the results are out within a month after all the interviews have been conducted and the appointment is confirmed in the next EC meeting. However, there were many applicants in this round, so it is possible that all the interviews may not be over yet. If you are an applicant, then best of luck and hope you make it through!

I agree with the rephrasing of the POV. Yes that is truly something that the govt should do. Either they must provide legit aid or fund universities in the manner they deserve. I agree govt aren't working enough on accessibility of education but just the fact of making some obscure institutions and adding the number.

Next. We are not self-pricked individuals. IIM are not for UG. Except a few which are providing some UG programme. At masters, at least those rates are duly possible if one can do it. But not for someone with a lower middle.

The point is NLS has a total fee of 25 lakh or say 28 lakh for 5 years. That is too huge. This is an haphazard management of services for UG. Overall, 25 lakh and some institutes charging 50 lakh like Jindal. And the new IIULER claiming around 50 lakh. Why don't we understand we aren't in the UK? UK is not the economy to replicate. We are in India. 16000 whatever sterling is too high in Indian standards.

Mbbs at state clgs is 5-6k. They crack NEET.

IIT charge overall 6-7 lakh for 5 years. They crack JEE.

Law charge overall 25-30-50 lakh for 5 years. And we crack CLAT.

What's the BAR COUNCIL of India doing? Why doesn't the Supreme Court take a suo-moto of this? Why don't lawyers speak up against such injustice. These are UG programmes for some school passouts. And this is not London/Amsterdam/Madrid/Swiss.

What kind of costing are they following? Why doesn't the govt take Legal education seriously? Why doesn't the govt invest in subsidized legal education at least at state institutions such as so called NLUs?

Or are they deliberately aiming the elitist to join?

The problem is not just with NLS. But with every Law college that is permitted to charge around more than 6-7 lakh for legal education. We fairly have no VOICE that speaks against the injustice of ignorance by the system. This system doesn't care of the quality of our courtrooms, this system doesn't care if the legal mechanism is working properly or not?

If NLUs wants to expand, they must be financed from sources other than just the students. They need to justify that to the lame system: "we cannot anymore put the burden on students to pay for all the expenses" "we need some much hundred or thousand crores to expand" Because this is UG programme. What's the difference between a private institution and a state funded institution then if we have to pay nearly the same?

And for concerned with sources. It's very decent to procure them at one rate. Learn some maths buddy. One time purchase for all 300 kids isn't that expensive and yearly maintenance should not be that costly. All that you mentioned from databases are ONE TIME investment. They recur and updating might be required, which many aren't aware of.

The point of entitlement and privilege is irrelevant here. The point that NLU + Law school charge so much that technically those without entitlement and privilege leave to pursue law. And when people without privileges do, institutions don't fund and throw them under the bus even after working hard. And someone from a rich background with reservation per se gets a degree from the top institutions.

Even with 5 lakhs per annum, NLS does not cover the cost per student. It is heavily subsidised - mainly from the grants the research centres get. I am not sure, but I have heard the research centres also pay rent to NLS. The funds from the online courses are also used to subsidise students.

Paying professors is expensive. Just look at how much private universities like Jindal, Shiv Nadar and BITS Law are paying to their faculty. If NLS has to recruit and retain good professors, it must pay them well.

Now it is true that 5 lakhs is prohibitive. Many will lose out on the opportunity to study at NLS simply for the lack of funds and that is unfortunate. But, it is difficult when state funding is so low. NLS is trying to attract CSR funds but NLS is no IIT that it can rake in millions.

And on the question of scholarships - all scholarships in NLS are need-based. So no, they are not going just to the rich kids.

I've primarily interned in disputes and have callbacks from two Tier 1 firms' disputes teams. Now, I have an opportunity to intern at another Tier 1 firm and am considering whether to list GC/M&A/ Cap markets as my preference, given that many from my college who pursued disputes haven't been hired. Since I’m from a T 2 NLU, would it be a smart move at this stage to explore other practice areas from a hiring perspective, or should I continue focusing on disputes? please help.

See above screenshot shared by me. Has evidence of the professor organising this event. See text of email- it says “writing on behalf of several faculty at JGU”……meaning the professor was part of this grouping of professors which organised this infamous event. Much of the objectionable content of this event was subsequently leaked to the press. See link: https://organiser.org/2023/11/04/204866/bharat/op-jindal-university-pro-palestine-protests-author-achin-vanaiks-anti-hindu-remarks-stir-controversy-read-details/amp/

I've interned here, it was mostly an enriching experience. It's mostly a young group of Amity/GGSIU/Symbi associates, it has recently got some really good orders in their favour and is a firm to watch out for.

Regarding the PPO query, I think they do give PPOs since there was a fresher in my course of work who had previously interned there. In addition to this, fourth and fifth year law students did apply for an assessment internship. Additionally, they also have some vacant space, so it logically makes sense for them to expand. Go all out in this one!

True and I agree with you. I only mentioned NLSIU’s BA (Hons) programme because I assumed that OP may prefer an environment where, without directly studying law, they would still be exposed to its pedagogy and prospects while being in a position to either pursue another career after they graduate or go the route of the LLB (Hons) if they so desire. I think the same experience, if not lesser, is possible, and definitely cheaper, in doing one’s under-graduation in certain colleges of DU. The only challenge is to outlast the competition. There is also BA in Social Sciences offered by TISS Hyderabad, about which I know little.

Ultimately, what matters is good company which is capable of stimulating one’s interests and providing the opportunity to engage in meaningful action. And while we do hope that our “best” institutions are more likely to provide the same, the world is simply too large to not stumble into happy accidents in other places. I hope this will not be interpeted as an excuse for “giving-up” but only a reminder for any young person here that their life will not be finished if they did not achieve every dream of theirs. For there are still more dreams to dream, more places to go, and more good people to meet and enjoy.

Hi, if you want to practice litigation/dispute resolution in Mumbai please crush your idea unless if you have any family background working in this sector. Having experience of 5 years I was hardcore litigation lover but had to ultimately succumb to the "FIRM" culture where your role of work ends after drafting unlike it should be otherwise, you should be able to do end to end job as a litigator from drafting filing and arguing. But in Mumbai its all counsel practice all firms have tie up with counsel even for the smallest thing counsels are engaged leaving no room for the Junior to face the judge or appear in Court. Ultimately as you will grow in your profession you will start noticing these work pay discrepancies which will make you question your decision to work as litigator. Even the good litigation firm tries to hold the money and give you smaller pay even if the firm will be earning in Millions. Secondly if you are a driven person and have great passion for law and argument you will feel regret everyday by tailing counsel for littlest thing and will wish that i could have done that with much lesser "Counsel Fee". HARSH TRUTH.

Hi, if you want to practice litigation/dispute resolution in Mumbai please crush your idea unless if you have any family background working in this sector. Having experience of 5 years I was hardcore litigation lover but had to ultimately succumb to the "FIRM" culture where your role of work ends after drafting unlike it should be otherwise, you should be able to do end to end job as a litigator from drafting filing and arguing. But in Mumbai its all counsel practice all firms have tie up with counsel even for the smallest thing counsels are engaged leaving no room for the Junior to face the judge or appear in Court. Ultimately as you will grow in your profession you will start noticing these work pay discrepancies which will make you question your decision to work as litigator. Even the good litigation firm tries to hold the money and give you smaller pay even if the firm will be earning in Millions. Secondly if you are a driven person and have great passion for law and argument you will feel regret everyday by tailing counsel for littlest thing and will wish that i could have done that with much lesser "Counsel Fee". HARSH TRUTH.

So can we expect a flood of buyers from law firms?

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