Please also share with your friends via the buttons below, or just tell them about it. This will only work if a huge number of lawyers at all seniority levels participate. So, partners, freshers and senior associates, AoRs, counsel, analysts, start-ups and legal heads, please join in to make this work.
You can also take the survey via most Blackberrys or smartphones by browsing to legallyindia.com/surveys
Not able to submit, says "Page at LI says one or more questions have not been answered in a valid manner" ..rechecking the answers dint enlighten me more as to where an invalid entry is made..:(
Dimwit30 Mar 2012, 06:03
+1-0
Kian & Team, It's a splendid intiative taken by LI. Hope maximum people participate to make this survey successful. Thanx and keep up the good work.
kianganz30 Mar 2012, 06:45
+0-0
Thank you!
kianganz30 Mar 2012, 06:44
+0-0
Hi S- sorry to hear that.
Only the minority of fields have to be filled in by the survey.
If one of the boxes with an asterisk * next to it is empty or does not contain valid data, then it should give you an error message in bold red text explaining what is wrong.
If you let me know the page this happened and whether you completed as law firm/advocate/LPO/in-house, and we will have a look over that page again to make sure it's free of errors.
Many thanks for your patience!
Kian
Sneha30 Mar 2012, 11:32
+0-0
Thanks Kian Back from court and shall try again now :)
kianganz30 Mar 2012, 08:48
+2-0
Thanks to everyone who's taken it so far - we're at 60 responses but will still need a lot more to come up with meaningful data that can be anonymised to protect everyone's identity. Strength in numbers! :)
Have had a conversation with someone on Twitter about disclosing law firm's names. Again, my personal assurance that all eventually published data will be fully anonymised so no one can tell if you took the survey.
We basically need law firm names because otherwise it becomes almost impossible to extrapolate anything from the findings, since all Indian law firms are so unique.
Please do let me have your feedback or let me know if you have any queries.
Thanks Kian
asdas30 Mar 2012, 10:02
+0-0
Ca you publish the survey results soon as many are contemplating job shifts in the new FY. This will be useful data for making an informed choice.
kianganz31 Mar 2012, 09:27
+0-0
We will try to publish this as soon as possible, yes.
Transparent Associate30 Mar 2012, 10:57
+11-0
Kian, thanks for conducting this survey.. hopefully once my partner has 'proof' that he is paying much below the norm he might give me a raise!
GLCite30 Mar 2012, 14:10
+1-0
HI Kian - Just had one quick question - how do you plan to ascertain whether the figures submitted are indeed genuine?
kianganz31 Mar 2012, 09:29
+0-0
Mostly using commonsense, plus we'll also have to carry out some independent research and corroboration.
Question is though, why would someone want to lie? If a firm is looking to game it's figures with fake data, we should be able to spot this fairly easily.
Any ideas will be keenly taken on board.
KoolKat30 Mar 2012, 16:01
+0-0
Kian, so that folks have some context - could you use benchmark law firm salaries against this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17543356
kianganz31 Mar 2012, 09:30
+0-0
Very interesting app - you mean comparing whether a lawyer in NY or London earns more than same seniority in India in local terms?
KoolKat1 Apr 2012, 17:16
+1-0
Yo, well I would need to think about this further - but here are a couple of things you could do (i) Compare Indian, UK and US lawyer pay scales in purchasing power parity terms, (ii) benchmark Indian law firm salaries against Indian salaries and global pay scales (BBC app).
My hunch is you'll find that there is very little difference (in PPP terms) between top firms in Mumbai, NY and London. You might also find that Indian law firm salaries are disproportionately high when compared with salaries in other sectors.
Time frames31 Mar 2012, 04:35
+0-0
Kian, it will be great if you could fix and declare some time frames for this.
For example; the survey should close say 3 weeks from now and the results be published 3 weeks from them. Will encourage you to publicize this more (maybe via a permanent link, like you have for Legally Jobs and MPL), will goad lawyers to taking the survey quickly and will create some healthy pressure on you to publish the results promptly.
kianganz31 Mar 2012, 09:34
+0-0
Hi, thanks for your feedback.
We aim to have this done as soon as possible but all will depend on whether sufficient responses are received - I think your timeline sounds like a reasonable suggestion.
Right now we are on nearly 200 responses, but we would aim for around 1,000 to get sufficient data points for each firm to enable safe analysis without compromising anonymity.
The earlier, the better! Please share with your colleagues and friends at your firm and others.
Analysis will take a little while but we are aware of the need for promptness and will try to start publishing the first useful data as soon as possible.
We have a permanent link on every Legally Jobs box inside stories now, and once the story drops down the page we will also keep re-publicising it regularly, perhaps with a banner ad or a button.
Best regards Kian
anonymous4 Apr 2012, 06:35
+0-0
Does LI have a privacy policy regarding the information gathered in this survey? Plus, in the interest of transparency, I would like to know if any entity has commissioned/sponsored the collection of this data or made it a condition precedent for something else.
kianganz4 Apr 2012, 06:57
+1-0
Hi, thanks for your query.
Yes, we have a privacy policy that is described in the survey pages. In a nutshell, we will not ever publish or share in any way any information that can be used to identify any individuals.
The survey has not been commissioned or sponsored by anyone, or is not a condition precedent to something else (not sure what that means?).
However, if we can analyse it and create some useful market intelligence reports, without ever risking a compromise of individuals' privacy and there being no conflicts, we may decide to offer these for sale to law firms or companies, though not yet fully decided on that.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Best wishes Kian
anonymous4 Apr 2012, 07:37
+0-0
I meant if you were asked to conduct this survey as part of a larger deal with XYZ organisation/firm, just wondering if there are any organisations interested in gathering the data and are willing to pay for it. Fully appreciate the work now, we are a highly unorganised sector at all levels with very little dependable data. Also appreciate the clarification on Privacy Policy, I shall take the survey and get as many of my friends in various firms as possible to participate. Thanks.
kianganz4 Apr 2012, 10:17
+0-0
Thanks for your response and good wishes.
To clarify, no, we have not done the survey as part of any deals with any organisation, or any 'private treaties' or the like (which as a matter of policy would never enter into).
I imagine recruitment consultancies and some firms would be interested in this data too to help them peg their own remuneration levels with the market, but we would never share any individually identifiable data, although if they would like general market salary data we would consider it.
Best wishes and thanks for passing on, we hope it will be useful for everyone. Kian
kianganz4 May 2012, 11:07
+0-0
@7.1... Oops, sorry, just realised your comment had earlier not been published by accident...
KoolKat4 Apr 2012, 17:00
+0-0
Boo! Democratization of knowledge, yo! :)
Observer4 Apr 2012, 17:20
+1-0
Great intiative! These are baby steps, but hopefully we will reach the level of salary transparency in London (ROF)and US (Lawfirmstats.com)
I hope this really translates into a situation where we can clearly identify firms into various bands like leaders(e.g. the S&C's which are the leaders in any remuneration related steps (e.g. spring bonuses etc.) and followers. Any idea if AMSS is the leader and then the others like Luthra etc follow or Luthra in its own league handing out beemers and iPads!
har-har!5 Apr 2012, 10:42
+0-0
This is perfect.. Might lead to them actually paying income tax!
Bee5 Apr 2012, 10:49
+3-0
LI, I think its a great initiative, and would love to know where I stand soon.
I do hope however that you refrain from publishing smaller firms names. Although it may be difficult to identify a person from AMSS/AZB/Luthra who has taken the survey, there may be no more than a couple of people who take it from a smaller firm!
Delhi Lawyer5 Apr 2012, 11:05
+0-0
Valid point ! since many start-ups can easily identify their lawyers
kianganz5 Apr 2012, 11:15
+0-0
Of course - that is why our policy is (and has been with the previous survey) that we will not publish anything about a firm that we don't have enough data for to allow confidentiality in analysis.
That's why we are trying to encourage large participation possible: strength and anonymity lies in numbers in this case...
This is also why it is not very helpful if people don't use their real firm's names, whether large or small, as we then won't be able to get a critical anonymous mass for each firm.
Do let me know if you have any queries or feedback.
Best wishes, Kian
goofy13 Apr 2012, 15:48
+0-0
How many numbers do you have now ?
pseudonym15 Apr 2012, 08:51
+0-0
Yes, kian - must have touched 1,000?
kianganz15 Apr 2012, 20:09
+0-0
Hello, thanks for asking - we've just hit 400, but some of these have not supplied the name of a law firm so those are less helpful.
We'll go on another promotion drive and hopefully increase the number. Any ideas welcome.
Best wishes Kian
Timing25 Apr 2012, 15:33
+0-0
LI, for the next year you might want to start this survey well in advance of the financial year end in India. Please also consider a permanent link which allows lawyers and students to track and compare the value proposition for different firms.
XYZ26 Apr 2012, 03:11
+0-0
Dear Kian,
Even thoughsome firms are big in size, they have teams practicing in niche area. These teams are very samll in size. A person can easily be identified, if you disclose team area wise details of remuneration.
kianganz26 Apr 2012, 08:33
+0-0
Thanks XYZ, we are definitely aware of this and will keep it strongly in mind.
Best regards Kian
ap26 Apr 2012, 12:52
+0-0
Hello Kian - can you let us know how many numbers have you hit till now, and what is the expected timeline for you to come out with the report?
pseudonym26 Apr 2012, 20:10
+0-0
how many have you got? let's have the result now?
ABC29 Apr 2012, 20:07
+0-0
He hasn't gotten anywhere close to the number yet - that's why the reticence!
kianganz30 Apr 2012, 00:18
+0-0
Sorry for the delay - we are just about reaching 500 responses. We have started looking through the raw (and anonymous!) data and there are still some gaps, particularly from smaller firms and even some of the bigger ones.
Will promote the survey more heavily again this week and hopefully be able to close ASAP.
Will keep you posted.
Best regards Kian
AMSS2 May 2012, 13:29
+0-0
My annual salary is the total money in the picture
I3 May 2012, 06:33
+0-0
Hi, great initiative.. when can we expect the final results kian?
anon3 May 2012, 06:34
+0-0
Kian- can we atleast have the initial/broad findings now?
Anon3 May 2012, 07:17
+0-0
Kian..even if the number u ve crossed is 600, the same should be ok to broadly form your views..wait for 1000 responses may be never-ending for you, cos whosoever had to participate must ve already participated by now.
Luthra-Associate4 May 2012, 11:01
+0-0
Silence again Kian? Not hitting the numbers?
kianganz4 May 2012, 11:09
+0-0
Not much to update, hence the silence...
We're making good progress and still getting helpful data, but we'll only analyse and publish when it's ready and we have enough.
We will also take a call on whether we should do another push to get numbers up or do additional research into the figures another way.
Best wishes, Kian
kianganz4 May 2012, 11:10
+0-0
For a number of firms and areas we do not have quite enough data points yet to allow anonymisation and additional analysis, so every additional entry helps.
Please do encourage colleagues to take it, that would also help greatly!
Thanks Kian
LKP5 May 2012, 06:01
+0-0
Kian, Irrespective of employee’s response you should take view/ response of employers also. Some time there will some variation of compensation components due to facilities and performance too. Precisely your research should not be biased irrespective of any ones view or information’s. Nonetheless you should also give more emphasis on those firms which not famous in web portal / media although they have strong base in market share (if you calculate of their revenue participation it really matters somewhere in their balance sheet) .
Rachit9 May 2012, 10:00
+2-0
When can we expect the report? Have been refershing my mail account.
Anon10 May 2012, 07:10
+1-0
Kian, dont u think it has been kept open for too long and ppl have started losing interest in this unless you finally come up with the analysis..
Hurry up please11 May 2012, 05:59
+0-0
Ya pls tell us dude-iv held up carrer switch moves waiting for ur info!!
Anon23 May 2012, 04:20
+0-0
LI...wake up from your deep sleep pls...isnt 2 month period good enough??
Still Waiting4 Jun 2012, 08:36
+0-0
Hi Kian-any update? Are we going to see the results or not?
Rachit12 Jun 2012, 07:42
+0-0
I am giving it up now...Its been ages, no replies the comments also...nvr seen LI being so irresponsive !
kianganz12 Jun 2012, 08:02
+0-0
Hi All,
Sorry for the delay in response - was about to post a response last week but been travelling and was easily distracted...
The salary survey is well and good. The basic data analysis is all put together. But the data we collected contains a number of gaps that we are currently filling with one-to-one research and investigation, in phase two of the project. This does take some time but is really useful and is working well.
Will keep you updated.
Please, do not delay any job moves or other career choices solely on the basis of this survey, but we are working at full throttle on this.
Best wishes, Kian
kianganz12 Jun 2012, 11:21
+0-0
Also, I don't know if you saw but we published some macro analysis of the survey results a little while ago.
The nitty gritty is a little more complex, alas...
Better late den never...but its gettin delayed and late beyond any limits...comeon its been 3 months now..wd be grt if the findings can now be published..dont expect LI to be a Govt dept.
kianganz25 Jun 2012, 05:21
+0-0
Thanks, we are working hard at it and will try to finish as soon as possible! There are a lot of numbers to sift through...
Comments
Only the minority of fields have to be filled in by the survey.
If one of the boxes with an asterisk * next to it is empty or does not contain valid data, then it should give you an error message in bold red text explaining what is wrong.
If you let me know the page this happened and whether you completed as law firm/advocate/LPO/in-house, and we will have a look over that page again to make sure it's free of errors.
Many thanks for your patience!
Kian
Have had a conversation with someone on Twitter about disclosing law firm's names. Again, my personal assurance that all eventually published data will be fully anonymised so no one can tell if you took the survey.
We basically need law firm names because otherwise it becomes almost impossible to extrapolate anything from the findings, since all Indian law firms are so unique.
Please do let me have your feedback or let me know if you have any queries.
Thanks
Kian
Question is though, why would someone want to lie? If a firm is looking to game it's figures with fake data, we should be able to spot this fairly easily.
Any ideas will be keenly taken on board.
My hunch is you'll find that there is very little difference (in PPP terms) between top firms in Mumbai, NY and London. You might also find that Indian law firm salaries are disproportionately high when compared with salaries in other sectors.
For example; the survey should close say 3 weeks from now and the results be published 3 weeks from them. Will encourage you to publicize this more (maybe via a permanent link, like you have for Legally Jobs and MPL), will goad lawyers to taking the survey quickly and will create some healthy pressure on you to publish the results promptly.
We aim to have this done as soon as possible but all will depend on whether sufficient responses are received - I think your timeline sounds like a reasonable suggestion.
Right now we are on nearly 200 responses, but we would aim for around 1,000 to get sufficient data points for each firm to enable safe analysis without compromising anonymity.
The earlier, the better! Please share with your colleagues and friends at your firm and others.
Analysis will take a little while but we are aware of the need for promptness and will try to start publishing the first useful data as soon as possible.
We have a permanent link on every Legally Jobs box inside stories now, and once the story drops down the page we will also keep re-publicising it regularly, perhaps with a banner ad or a button.
Best regards
Kian
Yes, we have a privacy policy that is described in the survey pages. In a nutshell, we will not ever publish or share in any way any information that can be used to identify any individuals.
The survey has not been commissioned or sponsored by anyone, or is not a condition precedent to something else (not sure what that means?).
However, if we can analyse it and create some useful market intelligence reports, without ever risking a compromise of individuals' privacy and there being no conflicts, we may decide to offer these for sale to law firms or companies, though not yet fully decided on that.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Best wishes
Kian
To clarify, no, we have not done the survey as part of any deals with any organisation, or any 'private treaties' or the like (which as a matter of policy would never enter into).
I imagine recruitment consultancies and some firms would be interested in this data too to help them peg their own remuneration levels with the market, but we would never share any individually identifiable data, although if they would like general market salary data we would consider it.
Best wishes and thanks for passing on, we hope it will be useful for everyone.
Kian
I hope this really translates into a situation where we can clearly identify firms into various bands like leaders(e.g. the S&C's which are the leaders in any remuneration related steps (e.g. spring bonuses etc.) and followers. Any idea if AMSS is the leader and then the others like Luthra etc follow or Luthra in its own league handing out beemers and iPads!
I think its a great initiative, and would love to know where I stand soon.
I do hope however that you refrain from publishing smaller firms names. Although it may be difficult to identify a person from AMSS/AZB/Luthra who has taken the survey, there may be no more than a couple of people who take it from a smaller firm!
That's why we are trying to encourage large participation possible: strength and anonymity lies in numbers in this case...
This is also why it is not very helpful if people don't use their real firm's names, whether large or small, as we then won't be able to get a critical anonymous mass for each firm.
Do let me know if you have any queries or feedback.
Best wishes,
Kian
We'll go on another promotion drive and hopefully increase the number. Any ideas welcome.
Best wishes
Kian
Even thoughsome firms are big in size, they have teams practicing in niche area. These teams are very samll in size. A person can easily be identified, if you disclose team area wise details of remuneration.
Best regards
Kian
Will promote the survey more heavily again this week and hopefully be able to close ASAP.
Will keep you posted.
Best regards
Kian
We're making good progress and still getting helpful data, but we'll only analyse and publish when it's ready and we have enough.
We will also take a call on whether we should do another push to get numbers up or do additional research into the figures another way.
Best wishes,
Kian
Please do encourage colleagues to take it, that would also help greatly!
Thanks
Kian
Sorry for the delay in response - was about to post a response last week but been travelling and was easily distracted...
The salary survey is well and good. The basic data analysis is all put together. But the data we collected contains a number of gaps that we are currently filling with one-to-one research and investigation, in phase two of the project. This does take some time but is really useful and is working well.
Will keep you updated.
Please, do not delay any job moves or other career choices solely on the basis of this survey, but we are working at full throttle on this.
Best wishes,
Kian
The nitty gritty is a little more complex, alas...
http://www.legallyindia.com/201205112811/Analysis/li-lawyers-survey-part-1-15-corp-lawyers-want-to-stay-3-years-half-want-own-law-firm-advocates-most-happy-75-want-foreign-firms-within-2-years