Homegrown Luthra & Luthra Mumbai partner Shishir Jose Vayttaden has resigned from the firm.
The corporate, M&A and private equity (PE) lawyer had joined Luthra from campus after graduating from NLSIU Bangalore in 2005 and received the firm’s managing partners solitaire award in April 2010 after publishing a book on the SEBI Takeover Regulations in January that year, when he was still a senior associate.
He made partner at Luthra Mumbai in 2012. The last deal led by Vayttaden that was reported by Legally India, was the $155m Medanta-Carlyle PE in December.
Vayttaden confirmed that he was moving on “after a memorable nine years” but declined to confirm where he would be joining.
“I am parting on very nice terms – the management’s been thoroughly professional about everything really,” he added.
Legally India understands, according to several sources, that Vayttaden will be joining Amarchand Mangaldas in Mumbai.
Update: Amarchand Mumbai managing partner Cyril Shroff confirmed Vayttaden’s joining and said he was the addition to the corporate practice.
Luthra managing partner Rajiv Luthra said: “The firm wishes Shishir good luck for all his future endeavours, a happy life ahead and the best of everything to be.”
The firm has faced a string of partner departures in the last 12 months, including the firm’s Delhi corporate partner Anil Rai, Delhi capital markets partner Madhurima Mukherjee, Delhi tax partner SR Patnaik, Delhi corporate partners Nivedita Tiwari and Dr Shweta Hingorani and international trade partner Moushami Joshi and Delhi litigation partner Ajit Warrier.
Comments
My gut tells me that this isn't rock bottom. It's a dive into a bottomless well.
Apologies but where was Mr. Luthra when all the exits were happening? He was not interested, my friend, to hear the truth. Part of good management is to choose your successors well. Everyone runs down MS and holds up RKL. I am sorry they are in this together. Hand in goldplated glove, riding a Bentley to a 100 crore farmhouse, smoking cigars!
DING DONG ... DING DONG ...
#deathknell
Shishir V, Anil Rai, Madhurima Mukherjee, SR Patnaik, Nivedita Tiwari, Dr Shweta Hingorani, Moushami Joshi, Ajit Warrier.
If you put these names (with the army of Principal Associates, Sr Associates & Associates who've quit in the past 2 yrs) together - you'll have an entire Tier 1 almost-full service law firm!
[quote name="Guest"]Shocked to hear.
Shishir V, Anil Rai, Madhurima Mukherjee, SR Patnaik, Nivedita Tiwari, Dr Shweta Hingorani, Moushami Joshi, Ajit Warrier.
If you put these names (with the army of Principal Associates, Sr Associates & Associates who've quit in the past 2 yrs) together - you'll have an entire Tier 1 almost-full service law firm![/quote]
So did the rest of his star team and they didnt even blink an eye while letting an entire team go. Now its back to what it was pre Ameets arrival. Very sad. Killed a thriving practice.
Are you belong to recruitment agency or a saint who can see the future. If not then focus on your job else you will be out to look for change.
WHAT are you smoking? Id like to have some of that because i too would like to enjoy momentary illusions of grandeur!
WHAT are you smoking? Id like to have some of that because i too would like to enjoy momentary illusions of grandeur![/quote]
Why is everyone after the I.P. Practice and Team ? They are doing well and rock !!! Gayatri ma'am is of the best I.P. Counsel's in India. So just quit bashing her or else ... !!! Sorry cant share what I smoke. Its an essential commodity. Ha ha ha ...
Thus, Luthra has earned a lot of haters, both alumni and present fee earners.
They sure lead the pack when it comes to good people leaving! Which other firm has seen so many top level people leave in a span of just 2 years?
They seriously need all the best wishes they can muster!
Do you honestly think Luthra is doing better than any of the AMSS, AZB, JSA, or Khaitan offices? Or for that matter even Trilegal?
L&L Delhi at one time competed with AMSS and AZB's Mumbai offices. L&L Mumbai was an infant and Bangalore was insignificant. Fast forward to today: L&L Delhi has deteriorated massively, Mumbai failed to grow to potential and Bangalore still has less lawyers than even the smallest size law firms.
They sure lead the pack when it comes to good people leaving! Which other firm has seen so many top level people leave in a span of just 2 years?
They seriously need all the best wishes they can muster![/quote]
[b]Luthra still has not reached the heights or rather depths reached by Juris Corps when it comes to maximum no of partners quitting in a minimum time span[/b]
[b]In this regard (i.e Maximum no of Partners and seniors quitting in minimum amount of time due to its oppressive HR) any other law firm would have a long way to go even before it aspires to compete with Juris Corp for this dubious distinction! Juris Corp is the undisputed leader in this category much like Bradman was in cricket[/b]
[b]In this regard (i.e Maximum no of Partners and seniors quitting in minimum amount of time due to its oppressive HR) any other law firm would have a long way to go even before it aspires to compete with Juris Corp for this dubious distinction! Juris Corp is the undisputed leader in this category much like Bradman was in cricket[/b][/quote]
Yes All Initial Partners except Founding Partner (9 out of 10) along with at least 50 seniors left it in little over a year due to oppresive HR policies. Challenge any Law firm to break this record!
[b]In this regard (i.e Maximum no of Partners and seniors quitting in minimum amount of time due to its oppressive HR) any other law firm would have a long way to go even before it aspires to compete with Juris Corp for this dubious distinction! Juris Corp is the undisputed leader in this category much like Bradman was in cricket[/b][/quote]
Yes All Initial Partners except Founding Partner (9 out of 10) along with at least 50 seniors left it in little over a year due to oppresive HR policies. Challenge any Law firm to break this record![/quote]
One cannot compare Luthra which is a giant with Juris Corp, which has become a pygmy amongst Law firms . Further judging by comments Luthras track record, clientele, size etc are all far better than Juris Corp which showed some promise 3 years ago but has now crashed and has a very bad reputation for ill treating its people
They sure lead the pack when it comes to good people leaving! Which other firm has seen so many top level people leave in a span of just 2 years?
They seriously need all the best wishes they can muster![/quote]
[b]Luthra still has not reached the heights or rather depths reached by Juris Corps when it comes to maximum no of partners quitting in a minimum time span[/b][/quote]
You talk about depths reached by a firm? RDA Legal!The entire firm, barring the MP and 3 Associates, quit within a span of 2 months. First RDA was forced out of PXV and within a year a firm of 40-50 lawyers turns to be 5 lawyers. All partners and 98 percent associates quit. I've not seen that ever in the Indian Legal market.
Some firm that did not pay salaries and every single person quit..
As for Shishir, the move to AMSS obviously augurs well for him, but the timing of the move also provides a lesson for Mohit and Rajiv - they have always emphasized more on loyalty than performance (in revenue and profitability terms, for the uninitiated). While that may have worked in earlier times, Shishir clearly thought he was getting less for his buck having made many sacrifices for the firm (including his move from Delhi). I wouldn't be surprised if there are more exits by more people who think alike.
You might have guessed by now as to why I'm writing such a long grunty piece -- an eternal Vespa fan.
Well done AMSS- You won it.
All the best LL- You need it.
What did they do?
Innuendo, Kian? That okay too? Feel free to not post any of these comments because you're a spineless troll.
Er, Kian? Accusing a person of being bloody minded and vindictive is ok?
Not true. He applied for and was rejected for an AMSS internship which in those days was akin to a PPO unless you screwed up big time. Only after that did the Luthra PPO materialize. In those days everyone tried for AMSS first and only rejects tried other options. I myself did not get through AMSS but at least I have the self respect to not go begging for a job there later.
Not true. He applied for and was rejected for an AMSS internship which in those days was akin to a PPO unless you screwed up big time. Only after that did the Luthra PPO materialize. In those days everyone tried for AMSS first and only rejects tried other options. I myself did not get through AMSS but at least I have the self respect to not go begging for a job there later.[/quote]
AMSS is now glad to have him with them. AMSS wants him now.
So, you are saying that one should never join an organization which rejects the candidate at an earlier point of time? I think that not only reeks of ego and nativity, but also lacks professionalism. To make matters worse, you seem to have around a decade of practice below your belt!
So, you are saying that one should never join an organization which rejects the candidate at an earlier point of time? I think that not only reeks of ego and nativity, but also lacks professionalism. To make matters worse, you seem to have around a decade of practice below your belt![/quote]
Different strokes for different folks I guess. Call me old fashioned but self respect and loyalty is more important to me than temporal stuff like money and a designation. In Shishir's case the move is even more bizarre since he's obviously very successful at Luthra which nurtured him from day zero. At the level he was at, there was no "professional" reason to hop to AMSS unless his career was in serious jeopardy at Luthra for reasons not attributable to him and he had a big EMI due on his house. If I were him I would not have been able to go through each day at AMSS knowing that I was never good enough for them originally and Cyril never took a risk with me when I was unproven instead of cherry-picking me a decade later.
On one hand you say that money and designation and other temporal stuff is not important. Then you say that if EMI is due, then its jump is justified.
To break down your points:
You say, "Self respect and loyalty is more important": where, why and how is he losing self respect by joining the biggest firm in India?
why is loyalty more important? For what? He is a professional. The Firm did not pay for his education, did no charity to him, made a lot more of profit because of his hard work. Why should he, or for that matter, any lawyer have to be LOYAL to the firm??? Slave and colonial mentality. You are still in the "huzoor-mai-baap' world.
What do you mean that his career was in jeopardy? You yourself write that "he's obviously very successful at Luthra".
And then you say that "I would not have been able to go through each day at AMSS knowing that I was never good enough for them originally and Cyril never took a risk with me when I was unproven instead of cherry-picking me a decade later" - Sir, it clearly shows that he has proven himself so much that Cyril had to make an offer to him. Cyrill is not doing charity by offering him employment. It doesn't matter if he was not picked up from campus about 10 years ago. Have you heard of "lateral recruitments" and the cause/reasons/factors/requirements for the same?
On one hand you say that money and designation and other temporal stuff is not important. Then you say that if EMI is due, then its jump is justified.
To break down your points:
You say, "Self respect and loyalty is more important": where, why and how is he losing self respect by joining the biggest firm in India?
why is loyalty more important? For what? He is a professional. The Firm did not pay for his education, did no charity to him, made a lot more of profit because of his hard work. Why should he, or for that matter, any lawyer have to be LOYAL to the firm??? Slave and colonial mentality. You are still in the "huzoor-mai-baap' world.
What do you mean that his career was in jeopardy? You yourself write that "he's obviously very successful at Luthra".
And then you say that "I would not have been able to go through each day at AMSS knowing that I was never good enough for them originally and Cyril never took a risk with me when I was unproven instead of cherry-picking me a decade later" - Sir, it clearly shows that he has proven himself so much that Cyril had to make an offer to him. Cyrill is not doing charity by offering him employment. It doesn't matter if he was not picked up from campus about 10 years ago. Have you heard of "lateral recruitments" and the cause/reasons/factors/requirements for the same?[/quote]
your logical reasoning is no better than Bappida's legal skills. Haha
I gave my view that according to me, self respect gets accorded the highest priority unless there is a matter of life and death (or insolvency) - meaning that unless Shishir's was forced to quit Luthra NOT because of his incompetence AND he had monetary pressures (in the form of a huge EMI) it would have been better if he had not asked Cyril for a job, having been turned down in the past.
Maybe to you loyalty means nothing but to me it is important. If Firm B gave me my first job when Firm A rejected me (at a time when I was at my most insecure), I would do my utmost to stay with Firm B. Clearly you have a different value system so lets leave it at that. That why I said different strokes for different folks.
I have said nothing about lateral recruitment, only that applying for a job to a firm that said rejected me in the past is for me a no-no to applying there again in future. Im sure Shishir could have applied any number of firms with whom he had no prior job-rejection history. In applying to AMSS he's obviously had to swallow some pride. Maybe he can do it, maybe you can do it but I cannot do it.
I suggest you read my post few more times, preferably while sober before you next comment.
That's like saying, 10 years ago I ended up not getting an offer from XYZ law school for an undergrad and now I won't do my LLM there under any circumstances because I take the decade-old rejection hugely and ridiculously personally.
Sometimes, our ego writes cheques which our practical reality can't cash.
Sometimes, our ego writes cheques which our practical reality can't cash.[/quote]
Nope, that's not what I'm saying at all. Read my post carefully and take some time to organise your thoughts and write a reasoned reply instead of flaming on this board and signing off with silly metaphors you've picked up from some self-help book.
wish him all the best for a successful road ahead
The ship is sinking and very soon we should see another batch of rats jumping off to a safer abode. Mr L, are you even listening? High time you respond to the situation.
Merger with another firm an option? Not on Mr L's watch.
It will be a steep climb back to the glory days that Luthra has seen and departure of another star performer will hurt Luthra more badly than ever.
The ship is sinking and very soon we should see another batch of rats jumping off to a safer abode. Mr L, are you even listening? High time you respond to the situation.
Merger with another firm an option? Not on Mr L's watch.
It will be a steep climb back to the glory days that Luthra has seen and departure of another star performer will hurt Luthra more badly than ever.[/quote]
Hi Mr. Bajaj,
How do you know that Mohit wanted the firm to be lean. Did he confide in you? Are you his bum-chum?
"The ship is sinking". "Merger with another firm an option"? Beta, what do you know of managing large law firms in India. If you have never managed a large law firm of the size of Luthra, then shut your trap. Surely, Rajiv Luthra has more brains, reputation and experience of running a firm than you have - merger an option it seems - ha ha. Shows your complete ignorance. Which large law firm has ever merged (barring FM and Little - which was a complete failure). Thank you for your great suggestions though
Why did you think that the Firm will even need to merge? Its still making profits. It was amongst the top of the league tables in M&A and B&F. It pays salaries on time, announced significant increments last year.
So, it should merge with some firm because Shishir left and young good-for-nothing associates and students are commenting on LI?
and regarding your comment "It will be a steep climb back to the glory days that Luthra has seen and departure of another star performer will hurt Luthra more badly than ever"
- It wont hurt Luthra. An 18 month old partner's exit can never hurt a 20 year old Firm. Look at Madhurima. How did her exit hurt Luthra. Manan has closed more deals in the recent past (check LI reports).
2. Pl name other firms of the same size and stature which have witnessed such heavy attrition. The names that come to my mind from years ago bled and never regained.
3. What is happening is for everyone to see. To deduce and arrive at logical conclusions does not require one to pre-qualify by managing a 300+ law firm.
4. Merger would not seem like an option because honestly - in today's market there would be no takers for L&L. When profitability has taken a beating (admitted by Rajiv and Mohit in interviews) any firm shopping for mergers would prefer a smaller firm on the upward rise and not a mammoth fallen from grace and struggling.
5. M&A tables have never been friendly to L&L. Perhaps for the first time they have finished in the top half of the list. But pay attention to detail. Their performance has improved marginally in a reviving market, while others' performance has remained static or dipped. L&L's true test came when markets were down and they failed miserably while genuine market leaders like AMSS, AZB and JSA continued to flourish.
6. Announcing increments is easy when half the teams don't stick around to wait for bonuses or collect more pay checks. Increments were FORCED because of the exodus in realization of the fact that people would not stick around. Even then, attrition has continued.
7. With the level of detail shared in comments, it is clear that 'students' are not commenting but mostly insiders. Stop and ponder - why would they? Things must be horribly wrong inside.
8. Your comment reeks of ignorance which seems to be the precise reason why Luthra is in such a soup. It is NOT an 18 month old partner, but a 9 year old homegrown star advocate who made very valuable contributions to the firm. Does Luthra habitually give out its Solitaire award to anyone?
9. If your views reflect how the top brass at Luthra thinks - everyone at Luthra has reason to be disgruntled and unhappy. It would mean that even when they serve your firm well for a decade, they will be told that their presence would not be missed.
Ridiculous.
2. Pl name other firms of the same size and stature which have witnessed such heavy attrition. The names that come to my mind from years ago bled and never regained.
3. What is happening is for everyone to see. To deduce and arrive at logical conclusions does not require one to pre-qualify by managing a 300+ law firm.
4. Merger would not seem like an option because honestly - in today's market there would be no takers for L&L. When profitability has taken a beating (admitted by Rajiv and Mohit in interviews) any firm shopping for mergers would prefer a smaller firm on the upward rise and not a mammoth fallen from grace and struggling.
5. M&A tables have never been friendly to L&L. Perhaps for the first time they have finished in the top half of the list. But pay attention to detail. Their performance has improved marginally in a reviving market, while others' performance has remained static or dipped. L&L's true test came when markets were down and they failed miserably while genuine market leaders like AMSS, AZB and JSA continued to flourish.
6. Announcing increments is easy when half the teams don't stick around to wait for bonuses or collect more pay checks. Increments were FORCED because of the exodus in realization of the fact that people would not stick around. Even then, attrition has continued.
7. With the level of detail shared in comments, it is clear that 'students' are not commenting but mostly insiders. Stop and ponder - why would they? Things must be horribly wrong inside.
8. Your comment reeks of ignorance which seems to be the precise reason why Luthra is in such a soup. It is NOT an 18 month old partner, but a 9 year old homegrown star advocate who made very valuable contributions to the firm. Does Luthra habitually give out its Solitaire award to anyone?
9. If your views reflect how the top brass at Luthra thinks - everyone at Luthra has reason to be disgruntled and unhappy. It would mean that even when they serve your firm well for a decade, they will be told that their presence would not be missed.
Ridiculous.[/quote]
6. Announcing increments is easy when half the teams don't stick around to wait for bonuses or collect more pay checks. Increments were FORCED because of the exodus in realization of the fact that people would not stick around. Even then, attrition has continued.
True that.
Your comment clearly shows that you have never worked with them and have commented for sake of it. If you would have worked with both of them, which I have, you would realise that Manan is extremely sound and brilliant at law, his commercial approach towards transactions is unparallel and on top of it do i need to remind you that the flourishing mumbai practice which Luthra has is primarily because of Manan which was underdeveloped till he joined. While Madhurima is also a great capital markets lawyer, I dont think there is such a huge gap between the two that you need to ridicule another. Clearly this shows your itch to comment against Luthra.
Most readers here have an opinion about Rajiv Luthra. But hardly anyone, if at all anyone, has worked with him. Perceptions, dear.
Your comment clearly shows that you have never worked with them and have commented for sake of it. If you would have worked with both of them, which I have, you would realise that Manan is extremely sound and brilliant at law, his commercial approach towards transactions is unparallel and on top of it do i need to remind you that the flourishing mumbai practice which Luthra has is primarily because of Manan which was underdeveloped till he joined. While Madhurima is also a great capital markets lawyer, I dont think there is such a huge gap between the two that you need to ridicule another. Clearly this shows your itch to comment against Luthra.[/quote]
Heard Chambers downgraded the Luthra Capital Markets practice after Madhurima left to Tier 2.. I would not mark that as sign of no impact!
The ship is indeed sinking (and I hope for your sake that Kian publishes this comment, if he didnt bother moderating yours) - the lesser spoken about the cash position of the firm and on-time payments, the better. With Luthra finally getting rid of some of the trash, the firm is bound to get a boost in the short term. But how far can Luthra justify some of the departures which would indeed affect its reputation and profitability?
Re merger, Luthra would've shown all the signs that would've made it an ideal case for one had it decided to continue on the growth path. But since I happen to know them better (than at least you), it is not even an option -- instead, LL has decided to revamp the cost and billing structure. I can educate you separately on the reasons and motivations, but in short, I've also discounted the possibility.
Re Departures, only time will tell.
I see other comments as well and surely not all of those are by students or disgruntled associates.
However, what I don't understand is the reason for so much mud slinging on Luthra. Whenever any article on luthra comes up in LI, it has the maximum comments. Kian should start paying some royalty to luthra :)
People do leave and join organisations - across all sectors. All employee movements are primarily guided and based on the employee's aspirations, career goals, etc. Shishir may have found a better match with Amss. One can't blame luthra for this.
Look at Infosys. There have been a mass exodus after NM took charge again. And it posted significant growth and profits recently.
I am not from luthra. I am not in the management team of any organisation.
My unsolicited advice to grads, please do not form hard opinions based on the above. It is a great platform, with some of the most wonderful people.
There is some negativity and will take time and effort for the members of the Firm to get over it...its a challenge, but the Firm and its people have a way of bouncing back.
My rejoinder to the unsolicited advice, pl don't form hard opinions based on what they said during your recruitment camps or internships. Pick up the phone n speak to someone working here.
You can always leave for AMSS later considering AMSS-L&L seem to have a preference for such moves. Oh wait. The lock in ..and most exits are projected as 'deliberate' by the management.. mmmm... ..
The partner who left MS had a pattern of replies: partners were without competence, loyalty, choosing non legal careers, motherhood, sisterhood....whatever it pleased him to say. He was cutting flab, boosting revenue, letting go of the non workers. It depended on who you were asking and in the mood MS was in. After [...] left ...he called a meeting of the great and the good and made all sorts of assertions [...]. [...] was called and threatened that statements made to the press are to be retracted. He accused [...] of [...]. Wonder now what he will say or do with his biggest protege leaving. Was Shishir incompetent? Did he stop working? Are you cutting flab of someone who recovered 5 times? Did he mishandle a client? Is he opting for a non legal career or motherhood or just sainthood, Mr. Saraf?
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-03-15/news/48244332_1_kabaddi-world-cup-spectator-sport-kotak-mahindra-group
Rajiv's priorities have changed!! He's now ventured out to create the IKL - Indian Kabaddi League.
No army can withstand the strength of an idea whose time has come...L&L Probmlem & Co., you guys are now masters of your own fates.
if only Rajiv had used his immense clout to get the indian markets liberalised, then he would probably be leading a comfortable life as India senior partner of an international firm, perhaps retired with a fat pay-out.
alas the boom years of last decade made all Indian law firm owners salivate at the torrents of fees with little or no commensurate efforts to improve their firms.
the chickens will surely come home to roost. today for L&L, tomorrow for other family owned enterprises
Dear DD,
Please don't worry so much. I am sure that the students who opted for Luthra are more intelligent than you and have done their DD.
Luthra was a day zero firm in all campuses and is among the top recruiters (having recruited more than 17 people - offering amongst the highest packages)
don't worry, be happy! Luthra people are still amongst the highest paid lawyers in the law firm profession.
good simile!!! : ) amarchand has probably the worst seating atmosphere among blue-chip law firms or maybe any other company. Used to work in the Mumbai office so don't know if Delhi follows the same cramped "sweatshop" seating system.