Recent CAM junior corporate partner Prerak Ved to join AZB as counsel

Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas (CAM) general corporate partner designate Prerak Ved will join AZB & Partners as a counsel in Mumbai, we have confirmed from authoritative sources.

It is understood that Ved had recently resigned the firm was part of the team of partner Shishir Vayttaden, who had joined Amarchand from Luthra & Luthra in 2014.

Ved, a qualified lawyer and Level III Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA), began his career at Juris Corp in 2003, joined Crawford Bayley from 2004 to 2010, moving to erstwhile Amarchand Mangaldas in 2010, where he was elevated to principal associate in 2013.

Ved was lifted to the partner designate position from principal associate only two months ago with one principal associate and three elevations to partner, according to a CAM press release at the time.

Bar & Bench first reported that he would be leaving to join AZB

The CAM Mumbai corporate practice has suffered the defection of Ashwath Rau and partners Ganesh Rao, Dhruv Singhal and Anu Tiwari to AZB, in addition to competition partner Nisha Kaur Uberoi, who joined AZB yesterday.

CAM Mumbai corporate partner Himanshu Dodeja had joined Blackstone in April of this year as its first India general counsel (GC).

We have reached out to AZB Mumbai managing partner Zia Mody, CAM managing partner Cyril Shroff and Ved for comment.

Comments

Crappy Duck 5 Aug 2016, 08:07
+42 -1
Need a delta view document to see what/who moved where.
RC 5 Aug 2016, 08:20
+7 -2
Ashwath Rau sends his regards. His new hobby is recruiting the few assets CAM has left.

Cam continues to crumble. More exits to follow.
Arya Starkk 5 Aug 2016, 09:32
+20 -1
Cam exodus of partners amd associates continues. 12 partners and almost 100 associates. CAMAlumnus can be a new standalone law firm!
Guest 5 Aug 2016, 11:52
+4 -3
AR will have new stuff to boast about!!!! and poor team- hearing how great AR is.
Supermann 5 Aug 2016, 15:12
+7 -0
Friend turned foes. AZB/CAM#

Wise Prerak to choose a profitable secure future in AZB over uncertainty.
Khalee karo yojna 5 Aug 2016, 15:50
+4 -0
What about rest of Shishir's team? Given by now they would be on the verge of dying, anyone else moving? I wouldn't be surprised!
Dantin 5 Aug 2016, 16:10
+70 -2
CAM is the next FoxMandal, and each day it's getting Little.
Dantin 6 Aug 2016, 13:02
+5 -1
Too all you 17 likes, you have shown me more love and appreciation than my own firm ever has. I am truly moved. I will keep entertaining you.
CAMMINIST 9 Aug 2016, 06:29
+1 -0
We are happy to dissuade you away from suicide! Love life brother!
Colleague 5 Aug 2016, 16:46
+5 -1
Na Baap bara Na Bhaiya! Sabse bara Rupaiya! Started from JC, grown up at SKA-CB, Groomed at CAM now will be minting at AZB!
1000 5 Aug 2016, 17:04
+1 -13
I am a fresh graduate from the Law School and just starting at CAM. When campus pitch was made 1.5 years back by AMSS, we were told we will be 1000+ lawyers by 100th year of AMSS in 2017. These departures sure create apprehension but am confident that we are on our way to "remain" the best firm. 1000 we will reach but may be couple of years later. I can "bill" over 2 crores myself....just hope such matters come to me.
haha 6 Aug 2016, 08:26
+8 -0
Matters are gonna stop "coming" if things go the way they are going! Dear child fresher out of law school, one of the most important realities of professional services firms i.e. proper business development is nearly non-existent in CAM. While they pay lip-service to it, nothing much happens really. And, yes, there was a time when you could have just randomly "billed" 2 crores, just because AMSS was providing services. Not any more! If lawyers think that without showing value, they can indiscriminately billing, that era got over like in the last decade. Most clients are not dumb idiots you see.. So, wake up and smell the coffee!!!
CAMMINIST 9 Aug 2016, 06:30
+4 -0
dont jump too much else I'll move you to TSG.
samm 5 Aug 2016, 17:39
+3 -3
is there enough space at AZB, Mumbai ?? Must be a terribly cramped workplace!!
Kingslayer 6 Aug 2016, 10:11
+2 -2
Their new office is quite spacious.
Shishir Doomed? 5 Aug 2016, 23:07
+12 -4
It's rather public knowledge that Shishir did not move with Ashwath to AZB and there's tremendous bad blood between the two. Is Ashwath going to make Shishir pay a heavy price for it now?

Prerak with more than 10 years of experience still hasn't made partner. May be a conspiracy theory but it's rather obvious to me that the motivate of brining Prerak over to AZB is to teach Shishir a lesson. Cause certainly if AZB wanted talent the market has a lot to offer in terms of 10+ years experienced professionals that are already partners, including at other Tier 1 firms.

Will be very interesting if the rest of Shishir's team also moves to AZB.

Lots at stake for Shishir, having already lost his team once a year back! Will the CSVS office have to intervene? Is Shishir's equity now at stake?

This will be better than any episode of Game of Thrones!!!!
Equity? 6 Aug 2016, 05:08
+5 -4
Shishir is already equity partner? That's great for him.
Inequity 6 Aug 2016, 13:20
+1 -0
@ Equity: Shishir future equity at stake. He is salaried partner now.heard cam cutting salary partner remuneration from 10 August.
Shishir Doomed? 8 Aug 2016, 15:27
+1 -0
Not equity as yet. But the word is that it's due next year. A lot at stake for him.
Really? 8 Aug 2016, 10:16
+1 -0
So Kian, why is this comment ok and what is wrong with my comment that if AR is [...] just to settle scores, then CAM might be better that AZB? Is it the word [...] which I should point out is inferred from the above comment [...]
kianganz 8 Aug 2016, 15:31
+1 -0
Yes, it was the use of that word...
Really really 8 Aug 2016, 17:39
+0 -0
Well then, censor that word - why the rest of the comment. Also again, should point out the fact the implication is from the original comment, which you published in its entirety. [...] Can't censor this now- everything is from the original comment.
kianganz 8 Aug 2016, 17:54
+0 -0
In my mind, there's a difference between spelling it out, vis-a-vis a general opinion or an implication, which allows for several different interpretations.

Am trying best to keep things civil here without censoring too broadly, and I am trying hard to stop comments on any individuals personally to be published (but there are sometimes borderline cases where things seem to be expressed in a more subtle and general manner than others, that leave things open to interpretation, or they expressly make it clear that they are merely opinions..).
PARTNER SALARIES 6 Aug 2016, 06:01
+1 -1
There seem to be variable figures going around as partner salaries in top firms. Would be awesome to know how much these guys are earning, would bring some perspective into our packages as well. So feel free to share salaries and designations ...I know at KCO an associate partner is earning ~ 1 cr.... what are the figures in SAM CAM AZB Trilegal JSA ? anyone?
Waterbottle 6 Aug 2016, 07:33
+2 -0
CAM I think is 90
CAMMINIST 7 Aug 2016, 16:35
+0 -0
75
samm 6 Aug 2016, 10:05
+0 -0
Wow, 1 cr is quite a handsome paypacket for an Associate Partner!
Zia rox 6 Aug 2016, 06:24
+5 -1
Is Rahul guptan joining CAM again?
Guest 6 Aug 2016, 21:02
+0 -1
ANY BASIS FOR THIS COMMENT?
Zia rox 7 Aug 2016, 13:55
+1 -0
Rumours
Minting money? 6 Aug 2016, 06:31
+8 -0
Considering that most Tier 1 firms have already paid bonuses by March end and AZB has till date not paid the same, it's Associates have already sustained huge monetary loss. So it's really not that profitable at AZB where bonuses and salary hikes are deferred by 6 months.
AZB Official 6 Aug 2016, 07:28
+2 -9
Our profits are significantly higher than any other law firm, although we may not choose to share with you petty associates. Profits belong to partners.
Cup 6 Aug 2016, 07:34
+5 -1
Hello! Salary hikes haven't happened at CAM too! They fear that more ppl will leave once that is done :p
Khaitan 6 Aug 2016, 07:55
+25 -2
I work at Khaitan for last few years. From comments on LI, I am made to understand that Khaitan is a "lesser" firm than AZB and CAM in all respects and that too for years. But I haven't seen a single year when promotions are not announced on 31st March, bonuses are not paid on on 31st March and increments are not effective from 1st April. May be that's why Khaitan isn't as profitable as these other better firms!?!
So-called 6 Aug 2016, 10:16
+0 -0
better firms
Alias 6 Aug 2016, 12:37
+0 -2
WTF is a Junior Partner????
Arey 6 Aug 2016, 17:58
+4 -1
Do you not watch Suits?
Intern 6 Aug 2016, 13:32
+2 -0
What is going on? Why are so many leaving cam? Can someone please give a list of best law firms? What should students consider. Whats the new pecking order?
bhaiyya ji ismile 7 Aug 2016, 01:46
+1 -0
new pecking order -

1. chhole kulcha
2. aaloo parothe
3. dahi bhalla
4. aaloo chaat (tava)
5. amritsari naan

For the avoidance of doubt, it is hereby clarified that notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained hereinabove, aaloo paratha (including, without limitation, a large glass with extra butter) is the best.

Regards,
Ram Bharose Halwai Team
List 7 Aug 2016, 04:47
+12 -9
1. AZB Mumbai
2. SAM
3. Khaitan
4. AZB Delhi
5. CAM Mumbai
6. Trilegal
7. JSA
Rank Baba 7 Aug 2016, 12:02
+3 -2
Says who listmaster?? Can you corroborate your source??
Zindabad 7 Aug 2016, 18:02
+1 -0
The order seems more or less fine for internship purposes, except that I would still place Luthra and JSA above Trilegal. Also AZB Delhi would be after the Mumbai offices of most firms except Luthra. Also SAM Delhi & Luthra Delhi are bigger than AZB Delhi.
Top 40 7 Aug 2016, 14:54
+0 -1
Bhai Hum to top 40 me bhi nahi, but hamara Partner ye Top 7 pe bhari hai! Recently proved.
@ 16.1 8 Aug 2016, 12:14
+1 -0
Where does Luthra fit according to you? And how come you use SAM, JSA, etc. but use CAM Mumbai, AZB Delhi?
General 9 Aug 2016, 13:36
+0 -0
Where is Luthra in the list?
About SAM 10 Aug 2016, 07:36
+0 -1
SAM Mumbai still does not seem to have established a credible capital markets team
Sacchi Baat 6 Aug 2016, 15:47
+0 -0
The day [...] when they broke off from AMSS, you had someone who knew how to save money -- but not to run an institution successfully -- take charge of the major decisions. This, is the fallout from that. There will be no restitution. Or vindication. Ever. Poorest strategy decision in the history of AMSS this side of the country. So sad. With the right people, at the top, CAM could have disappeared far ahead into the horizon while other firms tried to play catchup. [...]
Abcd 7 Aug 2016, 09:36
+5 -0
Just to make the news sound big you call partner designate as junior partner??
Absolutely 8 Aug 2016, 06:24
+4 -0
Can't agree more. "Partner Designate" is just a retention tool and the person is still a "Principal Associate" for all purposes..
kianganz 8 Aug 2016, 15:47
+0 -0
No, it's shorter than partner designate and practically it's the same thing.

Majority of partners are salaried partners, which can arguably make them, in many ways, principal associates but with a partner tag in their designation.

So the question is whether a partner designate is more a partner or more a PA. I don't think there's an obvious answer. As far as I remember the AMSS system, on business cards I believe they are still PAs, but in press releases and internally for pay, etc purposes, they are partner designates...

So, is it a junior salaried partner or a senior principal associate? Hard to say... :)
Really 8 Aug 2016, 17:41
+0 -0
Yet you chose to go with "junior partner" rather than "senior PA" - click bait :)
kianganz 8 Aug 2016, 17:47
+0 -0
Well...

1. If clickbait, it clearly worked, since you clicked :)

2. The headline is more fun this way and similarly accurate.

3. It's also a subtle commentary on partnership. One of the persistently frustrating things we haven't been able to get under our belt yet consistently, is finding a way to compare partnership at different firms, like with like-style. One firm's partner is another's salary partner, is another's principal associate. Would be nice if we could develop some consistent language for describing various partnership levels.

I kind of made an attempt at definition here, but it's still horribly inconsistent:

Luthra's "new “partners” (senior non-equity partners), “partner designates” (more junior salaried partners)"

http://www.legallyindia.com/law-firms/analysis-luthra-promotes-57-shares-full-breakdown-of-senior-and-principal-associate-promotions-on-facebook

Maybe we should make a table some time?
Not really 11 Aug 2016, 04:54
+0 -0
"Partner Designate" just means "you will be made a partner soon" - in the current CAM (even in erstwhile AMSS Mumbai) system, it has been announced that designate tag does not guarantee an automatic upgrade to the next level at the end of the year - you could end up hanging around with the designate tag for more than a year.

It's clearly a senior principal associate and not a junior partner..
kianganz 11 Aug 2016, 05:00
+1 -0
Understood, technically that seems to be correct.

But semantically, if it's just a senior principal associate, rather than a junior partner, why does the designation contain the word 'partner'?

Either partner designate literally means nothing, or it has de-facto become the first step on the run to partnership.

Another honest question, at places like CAM, etc, what is the difference between principal associate and salaried partner, other than more salary and the job title partner? You get to be part of a special partners-only email list? Do you have more appraisals to do of your team than a PA? Are you entitled to more revenue share from your team? I honestly don't know, but would love to have some light shed...
Zia rox 8 Aug 2016, 13:45
+1 -0
Just learnt that SAM is the legal advisor for the vodafone ipo. What happened to S&R
Get Full Info 8 Aug 2016, 16:58
+1 -0
S&R has always acted for Vodaone plc so it will be seller's counsel....
Zia rox 8 Aug 2016, 17:23
+1 -0
No, SAM is representing the issuer. S&R might be representing the bankers
AZB 8 Aug 2016, 19:49
+1 -0
The banks are represented by AZB
Zia rox 8 Aug 2016, 17:25
+1 -0
Hey Kian
Can you throw some light into this as this will be the biggest IPO in India.
Zia rox 8 Aug 2016, 17:47
+1 -0
Why has my comment not been been published??
KCo best place? 9 Aug 2016, 03:17
+4 -2
I don't work at KCo but have been given to understand from the past decade that they have consistently doled out the best and timely bonuses and salary hikes compared to other so called "market leaders" who have yet to declare bonuses and that too a dismal amount when they do citing various reasons.