Star start-up splits: Jerome to Poovayya; Roy keeps Alliance; Kumar may join elsewhere

Tuesday, 4 December 2012 By Legally India Law firms

Young start-up Alliances: Doomed?
Young start-up Alliances: Doomed?

Exclusive: Alliance Legal, which was set up in Mumbai 15 months ago by partners and a senior lawyer from AZB & Partners, J Sagar Associates (JSA) and Talwar Thakore Associates (TTA), is breaking up, and co-founder Vishnu Jerome is in advanced talks to start a Mumbai office for Bangalore firm Poovayya & Co.

Jerome, who was a partner at AZB Mumbai until he resigned in June 2011, is set to start an office for Poovayya & Co in Mumbai, according to sources close to the firm. Poovayya & Co currently has offices in Bangalore, Chennai and Delhi.

The firm’s founding and managing partner Sajan Poovayya did not respond to calls or messages seeking comment at the time of going to press.

Co-founding partner Priyanka Roy, who was previously a partner at JSA, will retain and continue running the Alliance Legal brand according to authoritative sources.

Ravi Kumar, who was a managing associate at TTA before becoming the third Alliance co-founding partner, is understood to be leaving the partnership to explore other opportunities, including moving laterally to other firms.

Jerome, Kumar and Roy declined to comment when contacted.

The three founders, who all graduated between 2000 and 2002 from NLSIU Bangalore, set up the firm in September 2011 and had managed to attract a number of capital markets and private equity deals, according to previous reports on Legally India.

It is understood that the full demerger and exit of the partners, as well as which side associates will join, may take several months to finalise.

Earlier this year, young seven-partner start-up law firm PXV Law Partners split into three firms over “differences in vision”.

Legally India reported in August that start-up law firms were making a dent in the market and attracting work, although the transition from lower margin work to being instructed on marquee deals often proves to be difficult.

Alliance LegalVishnu JeromePriyanka RoyRavi KumarPoovayya & Costart-up law firms

Comments

Cool dude 4 Dec 2012, 06:08
+4 -1
hahahahahaha.
Reality 4 Dec 2012, 06:38
+4 -1
It bites. I remember previous threads regarding the PXV splits - so many people spoke about the high levels of maturity of the Alliance lawyers and faulted younger firms for splitting because of their immaturity. Many others pointed out to splits with AZB, Trilegal, Phoenix, Fox, Khaitan, etc. etc. Guess this latest split shows that these kind of things are part of the game. The test is of lawyers who take it in their stride and move on. The others with major theories re: maturity/immaturity or those who laugh like the 1st comment are ppl who have never really come close to running a firm.
birdie 4 Dec 2012, 07:07
+1 -1
This shows that Kian's own assessment in Mint that Alliance being an "inspiring start-up" which "stood out" was misplaced. What this shows is that the partners not only had the understanding between themselves that is required to start a place; but also had no strategy in place. No vision, no strategy, no maturity and of no patience. From being entrepreneurs they now return to being part of established firms. PXV, RDA Legal, Prism Partners, now Alliance...are we seeing a trend in the start-ups? Which is next?
Birdie 2 4 Dec 2012, 13:43
+1 -1
Maturity is critical for a start up to work, although it can sometimes work boh ways. Sometimes, you need to be willing to take a risk that maturity may stop you from taking!
Sage 4 Dec 2012, 06:42
+10 -0
Lawyers of today think that just because they have done 25-30 fancy transactions they can run their own shop. While these guys may be excellent lawyers, relatively they are still yong and just not mature enough to run law firms! One feels for the young associates who had faith in these guys and joined them. Running a law firm is like running any other business and requires a lot more than legal acumen. There is a lot to learn from the old timers at AMSS, AZB, JSA, KCo and the like.
warrior mage 4 Dec 2012, 07:02
+1 -0
And also from Fox Mandal, Kocchar and other established names
What?? 4 Dec 2012, 07:11
+1 -0
@warrior mage, you must certainly be joking by mentioning FM on the same lines as in the previous post. Other than if you meant that one can learn what NOT to do from firms like FM.
warrior mage 4 Dec 2012, 08:09
+1 -0
@what?? umm sarcasm.. fools etc... think the point is that generalizations are doomed for failure, just because a firm is an "old timer" doesnt mean it has done everything right, or that it will continue to do the right things all the time
prefer to be anony 5 Dec 2012, 08:08
+2 -0
[quote name="Sage"]Lawyers of today think that just because they have done 25-30 fancy transactions they can run their own shop. While these guys may be excellent lawyers, relatively they are still yong and just not mature enough to run law firms! One feels for the young associates who had faith in these guys and joined them. Running a law firm is like running any other business and requires a lot more than legal acumen. There is a lot to learn from the old timers at AMSS, AZB, JSA, KCo and the like.[/quote]


Ok, so I am a mid level lawyer (some 6+ exp) who is going to do a business degree from a premier MBA institue (the premier institute) in india

now who do i connect with at these firms to help them run the firms ?
Bhangee Family Lawyer, NOIDA 5 Dec 2012, 10:48
+0 -0
Why don't you set up your own 'premier' law firm!
prefer to be anony 5 Dec 2012, 11:45
+1 -0
[quote name="Bhangee Family Lawyer, NOIDA"]Why don't you set up your own 'premier' law firm![/quote]

sure, why don't you join me.

love to have people around, specially lazy bums living off their parents' income.

You know, the kind who would never understand the true meaning
of risk. after all what do the likes of you actually got to lose ?
Anonymus 6 Dec 2012, 12:45
+0 -0
At least have parent's income to live off. You do not even have that. Taking risks and challenges, all that is crap talk, if you had the resources, you would be a lazy bum, thats just sour grapes. Accept it you are the unprivileged lot, who has to fight this slave dynasty and suffer in these firms. You do not have a skill set, corporate law firms do not require much intelligence in any case. A poor mediocre soul you are, who is venting our dissastifaction with life by being jealous over what others have. So there....
prefer to be anony 6 Dec 2012, 14:50
+0 -0
[quote name="Anonymus"]At least have parent's income to live off. You do not even have that. Taking risks and challenges, all that is crap talk, if you had the resources, you would be a lazy bum, thats just sour grapes. Accept it you are the unprivileged lot, who has to fight this slave dynasty and suffer in these firms. You do not have a skill set, corporate law firms do not require much intelligence in any case. A poor mediocre soul you are, who is venting our dissastifaction with life by being jealous over what others have. So there....[/quote]

poor mediocre soul wouldn't make it to IIM Ahd. would he ?
but you wouldn't get it. because unlike my parents who are proud of me; your dad probably looks at you every morning and wonders what he did do deserve you.
prefer to be anony 6 Dec 2012, 14:51
+0 -0
[quote name="Anonymus"]At least have parent's income to live off. You do not even have that. Taking risks and challenges, all that is crap talk, if you had the resources, you would be a lazy bum, thats just sour grapes. Accept it you are the unprivileged lot, who has to fight this slave dynasty and suffer in these firms. You do not have a skill set, corporate law firms do not require much intelligence in any case. A poor mediocre soul you are, who is venting our dissastifaction with life by being jealous over what others have. So there....[/quote]

And by the way, if you pass sarcastic comments on others, have balls to take sarcastic comments passed on to you.
Redux 5 Dec 2012, 10:48
+0 -0
Sage, how old was Cyril when he started his own Firm? Or Zia? What does it take to run a law firm? Or are you saying that only people with family law businesses should run firms? How absolutely derogatory is that?
Dodo 5 Dec 2012, 11:43
+1 -0
[quote name="Redux"]Sage, how old was Cyril when he started his own Firm? Or Zia? What does it take to run a law firm? Or are you saying that only people with family law businesses should run firms? How absolutely derogatory is that?[/quote]

Fool. Cyril never started his own firm. Hahahahah. What an idiot you are
Redux 5 Dec 2012, 17:02
+0 -0
@ Dodo, my point exactly, then what learning can we get from someone from him as suggested by Sage ... blah... no wonder your species died out
#ShadowWarrior 4 Dec 2012, 07:16
+0 -0
very strange comparison between horses and hens.. while PXV actually did very good work for one and a half years (maybe more) of existence, Alliance seems to have disintegrated within a few months of starting up.
So really the comparison does not mention sense..
Also one of the main things to learn from fox seems to be back biting dispute start up and non payment of salaries for eons.. not sure how that is something to learn and imbibe..
Stunned! 4 Dec 2012, 10:14
+0 -0
@ShadowWarrior- comparison between horses and hens? That statement barely warrants a reply. Separately, for a clearer perspective on the tenure of existience of the firms, please do read the article clearly.
Sdheer Reddy 4 Dec 2012, 07:38
+0 -0
Poovayya has been appointed Addl.Adv.General of Karnataka a week ago .....http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx
Tribhumi 4 Dec 2012, 11:53
+9 -0
Is this split beacause the founders were all from NLS Bangalore?
haha 4 Dec 2012, 12:36
+1 -0
Thats hilarious! Seemingly, its not just NUJS "kids"!
Anon 4 Dec 2012, 12:03
+4 -0
I thought Vishnu was joining Vineetha MG's start-up. Kian, any idea if this is true?
Associate 4 Dec 2012, 12:45
+2 -0
Struggle for existence...
Wellwisher 4 Dec 2012, 12:56
+0 -0
Some of the stuff being said is ridiculous. Any business has ups and downs and the split doesn't mean alliance didn't do great work or that it wasn't a quality firm. Maybe the economics of the partnership or the relationship between them wasn't professionally functional. In most cases, the split is amicable with an intention of not letting bad blood seep into inter-personal relationships.

Having said that, it without doubt that vishu's a fantastic lawyer and his team will continue kicking ass, whatever the new entity is called.
warrior mage 4 Dec 2012, 13:18
+4 -0
Erm... "New Entity" is called Poovaiyah
Not easy 4 Dec 2012, 13:41
+5 -0
I think this reflects the fact that setting up a firm is not easy, and no matter how close your friendship may be, you need a lot more than friendship to make a firm succeed. Sometimes, friendship can blind you to what working with someone can be like, or make you take for granted that your aims and vision are the same whereas they may not be.

It is far more important to share the same outlook, ambition and, for lack of a better word, culture. This is what English firms try and do, and some of the larger Indian firms such as AMSS are trying to do, although in this market it is not easy and I make no comment on whether or not firms have been able to do this.

It would be interesting to see why some firms, such as Trilegal, have stayed together and prospered, and some, such as PXV and Alliance have not. Perhaps Kian can see if there are any general themes that could be of interest to readers.

Finally, it is always sad to see firms break up, and I wish all three partners and the associates good luck.
Om son of Soem 4 Dec 2012, 14:04
+0 -0
God bless the vishnu and priyanka. They were good people and good lawyers. Godspeed them on their journey. They will be missed by many.
warrior mage 4 Dec 2012, 14:28
+1 -0
Dude... No easy... Trilegal, really? Heard of a firm called Pheonix Legal? Heard what happened to their founder partner in Delhi? Seriously, you can come up with a better example... Also, remember having a split and prospering, are not really synonimous, are they? Shallow mate shallow
The Great Gatsby 4 Dec 2012, 13:58
+0 -0
Vishnu and team were [...]. That is confirmed news. Where did Poovyya come in? Hmmm.... Half baked stories Kian, half baked stories....
The Great Gatsby 4 Dec 2012, 15:15
+0 -0
Why is my comment censored???? I said nothing more than what number 10 asked! A little cat amongst the pigeon. #66A
apple cider 4 Dec 2012, 14:12
+0 -0
Where are the associates going?
anon 5 Dec 2012, 05:30
+3 -0
I think some of the associates, especially Shameek & Vardaan, have got a real raw deal. They left AZB and Trilegal with the enthusiasm to join a startup; and now they have to go back to a regular firm - Poovayya - which is much smaller than AZB or Trilegal. Its better to be a AZB senior associate than a Poovayya Senior Associate. And starting Poovayya Bombay office is not even remotely close to starting your own firm which Vishnu had originally set out to do.
Om son of Soem 5 Dec 2012, 07:17
+2 -0
[quote name="anon"]I think some of the associates, especially Shameek & Vardaan, have got a real raw deal. They left AZB and Trilegal with the enthusiasm to join a startup; and now they have to go back to a regular firm - Poovayya - which is much smaller than AZB or Trilegal. Its better to be a AZB senior associate than a Poovayya Senior Associate. And starting Poovayya Bombay office is not even remotely close to starting your own firm which Vishnu had originally set out to do.[/quote]

Thatt is what comes of too much greed and wanting to be in the limelight a.k.a. "I started my own law firm"
Redux 5 Dec 2012, 10:50
+1 -0
I would still say being an equity partner in Poovaiyah is better than being an equity partner in AZB, simply because of the autonomy you will get....
Truly Unwise 5 Dec 2012, 14:24
+0 -0
Its a little odd to say that associates left cushy jobs in AZB and Trilegal and started in a smaller law firm, at, what I am assuming, a much lesser remuneration. Though the question is valid...what prompts a person at an associate (or senior associate or whatever they call them these days) level to join from a big firm to a start-up as an associate (etc.) (and not as a partner like the oft quoted PXV). No money, no credence of saying "My law firm", no training, no big deals. Perhaps they have a better life and a little more autonomy, though I doubt the former in a start-up. A fool's paradise no doubt. Or an alternative for people who cannot survive big firm competition.
Bhangee Family Lawyer, NOIDA 5 Dec 2012, 10:51
+1 -0
East or West Bhangee in NOIDA is the Best! Ask them to join Bhangee for international class exposure.
Sachin Tendulkar 5 Dec 2012, 06:03
+7 -0
I blame T20 for all this. We should play more test cricket and cultivate a better temperament...to play a duracell type innings.
Wisdom Unleashed 5 Dec 2012, 07:53
+2 -0
Om: People who start law firms are generally referred to as Partners, not Associates. So I am not sure if these guys started the law firm. They were merely a part of the start-up. And you may, if you want, venture on to say that their decision (in hindsight, of course)wasnt wise. But to attribute greed is a little ridiculous and stupid.
anon 5 Dec 2012, 12:19
+0 -0
So with the fall or split of Alliance, Prism, PXV, RDA; which are the other start-ups which have the potential of making it big and have made some impression? I mean start-ups which have been started by relatively younger, but smart, lawyers?

Clasis? Vidhi? Vichar? Finsec? K Law? These few readily come to mind. But surely there are more.
troy 5 Dec 2012, 14:56
+0 -0
I think amongst start-ups, Viddhi, Verus and Advaya are doing really well. Platinum and TTK are, of course, in a different league and can't be really considered as start-ups.
Redux 5 Dec 2012, 17:07
+1 -0
On what is this analysis based? the fact that they haven't split yet, :-D... a few days back the same analysis would have been applied to Alliance

Isn't Vidhii, with Manish Desai who has 20 odd years of experience, in a different league altogether...

I think the major success story has been Argus, particularly the coup in taking over U&U
Question 5 Dec 2012, 12:51
+1 -0
Kian, why do you keep talking about PXV? Why couldnt you refer to Prism or the ALMT split? Why go on and on about PXV? Does referring to this firm or NUJS generate more comments/controversy?
kianganz 5 Dec 2012, 12:56
+0 -0
PXV was another young start-up of several lawyers from different firms, and incidentally most were also from the same law school.

Prism, on the other hand, was not a split - the two founders and team simply joined Naik.

ALMT is hardly a start-up. It may be one of the younger firms relatively speaking (10-ish years?) but was comparatively pretty huge in terms of headcounts and well-established.

Hope that explains it.
Question 5 Dec 2012, 14:13
+0 -0
Hmmm - and what exactly was this - your story!! http://www.legallyindia.com/201205152816/Law-firms/elp-picks-up-naik-ally-prism-for-cap-markets-practice
kianganz 5 Dec 2012, 17:14
+0 -0
Apologies, I meant join ELP. The move from Prism, to best friend of Naik to merging with ELP was interesting, but each of those stages was rather short, and crucially, it was more of a lateral move (of a firm/2 partners as a going concern) rather than a partnership break-up.

Seems very different from 3 or more founding partners deciding to demerge into separate firms...
Wise One 5 Dec 2012, 13:58
+1 -0
Mergers and splits in law firms has been around for a while. LI just takes the trouble to highlight it :-)
Redux 5 Dec 2012, 14:42
+0 -0
Yes even one year old ones
dodo 6 Dec 2012, 11:56
+0 -0
In this game of love and lust, another one bites the dust...
Bhangi TA Treepaty Coromandal 12 Dec 2012, 09:27
+1 -0
I fail to understand! Why this bruhaha? Lawyers and drivers in India can be changed anytime-so said wife of owner of a law firm!
Commenting is closed for this article.