BG counsel Smriti Subramanian joins Vaidyanathan’s Advaya: targets Pune & Delhi this year

Subramanian: Aims to offer different expertise
Subramanian: Aims to offer different expertise
Exclusive: Advaya Legal, the two-and-a-half-year-old firm started by former GVK in-houser Ramesh Vaidyanathan, has hired its third partner with ex-BG in-house counsel Smriti Subramanian, as the firm hopes to spread its footprint beyond Mumbai.

Subramanian, who graduated from NLSIU Bangalore in 2001, has worked in-house at ITC and as a senior associate at Economic Laws Practice until 2007 before joining BG Exploration and Production India – the local subsidiary of the UK gas major BG.

On Friday she joined Advaya as a partner and would focus on scaling up the infrastructure, energy and natural resources practice of the start-up firm.

“I like Advaya because it is a very small team and open to ideas,” Subramanian said. “My own take on established law firms is, their structures are very firm and the ways they do business are almost cast in stone – very partner-led and very little space for doing your creative bit.”

“[Advaya] is a small firm but it has visions in growing,” she added. “We’re trying to attach ourselves to a niche space with a very focused set of skills. We do understand the challenges of being a small firm but the strength we will have going forward is having client perspective on board – that’s primarily a differentiator I bring on the table presently: I know what they [clients] are missing.”

She explained that established Indian law firms mostly focused on the M&A, investment or financing side, but not many were doing the bulk of project contracts, or engineering, procurement and construction (EPC) contracts or regulatory work.

At BG therefore, she never outsourced such work to law firms, said Subramanian, perhaps because domestic law firms just hadn’t developed that kind of expertise yet unlike abroad.

Vaidyanathan commented: “For us it’s important because typically you would not find these big multinational in-house counsel moving out to join start-ups, so I think it’s quite exciting. We are now in that stage where we are going to expand in a big way and get some more activity in the market.”

He said that he was “quite confident” that Advaya would open an office in Pune, followed by Delhi in the next seven months. Pune was attractive because a lot of the firm’s German clients were based there.

Advaya was also looking for new Mumbai headquarters, after having grown to three partners and 10 associates, explained Vaidyanathan, with Meenakshi Iyer having joined two years ago as the litigation partner, although corporate partner Ashish Bhakta, who had joined from ARA Law in 2011, left to join a law firm in the UK.

Vaidyanathan said that the partners had “assured contractual commitments” that Advaya would be converted into a full equity partnership in future.

Vaidyanathan said that infrastructure work now contributed around 20 per cent of the firm’s revenue, as did intellectual property, information technology and ecommerce. Corporate and commercial, and aviation work also made up approximately one fifth each, while media-law related work brought in around 5 per cent of revenues.

Comments

priya k 9 Oct 2012, 16:16
+0 -0
All the best to Smriti and Advaya Legal.
Mr & Mrs. Iyer 9 Oct 2012, 16:49
+4 -0
India is a secular country. Right it is. 3rd partner again south indian. How many of the "small team" from south indian origins? Law Firms are becoming community concentric.

As for the assured contractual commitments or whatever it is.. again a joke.. cause these sole guys never cease even a bit of control. Its a Firm as shown always, but in reality its fully controlled. Take the biggest to the smallest Law firms. Sorry to be cyncial. All the Best Smriti and Advaya.
Señor Agape 10 Oct 2012, 01:02
+4 -0
I don't recall you making the same comment following the story on Khaitan, which is fairly transparent about being essentially a service firm for the Marwari community. Or do you object only when South Indians practice together?
Iyer & Iyengar 10 Oct 2012, 05:28
+3 -0
Another insecure South Indian
Dahi Balla and Asociates 10 Oct 2012, 05:28
+1 -0
So. Iyer is from Khaitan and Agnape is a south Indian. Lol
Anonymous guest 10 Oct 2012, 08:14
+0 -0
What's this crap yaar? If Mr Vaidyanathan or other start up firms happen to be made up of South Indian partners, let them be. A partnership has to get along with each other, so intra-regionally people tend to get along better with each other than not. What's the big deal?
Wondering 9 Oct 2012, 17:38
+0 -1
Kian, of the many start-ups that you have covered in the last 2 yrs (like Advaya, Alliance, Verus, Vichar, Finsec, Vidhii, PXV etc.), which are the top three which have shown most promise and made the most initial impression?
Iyer & Iyengar 10 Oct 2012, 05:29
+0 -0
lol at Advaya, Alliance, Vichar, PXV
kianganz 10 Oct 2012, 08:01
+0 -0
It's actually really hard to say, since it's not really comparing apples with apples.

Each of these have their own USPs, strategies, sector focus, geographies, etc.

I think all of the ones you mention have something unique about them and seem to be surviving, and in some cases growing rather rapidly.

Whether any of them have the potential to become the next AZB is a different story.

See here for some more start-up coverage to provide some more perspective:
http://www.legallyindia.com/tag/start-up-law-firms

http://www.legallyindia.com/201208133008/Analysis/asking-clients-can-small-legal-start-ups-compete-with-the-big-boys-and-do-you-have-to-risk-your-neck

Best to give firms that seem interesting a go, I reckon, and see how you like them?

Best regards
Kian
Kishen 9 Oct 2012, 18:09
+1 -0
Trilegal is a Tier II firm.
Anon 10 Oct 2012, 06:24
+5 -0
And Congress is corrupt!!! anything new you have?
Confused Zeus Says . . . 9 Oct 2012, 18:11
+0 -0
She's perhaps right that very few law firms have EPC contract drafting expertise (The "P" in EPC stands for "procurement," and not "production."). I'm only aware of AZB. One reason is because you need significant technical expertise in drafting an EPC contract. Giving credit where it is due, I think its a tall claim to say that one can draft an EPC contract all by oneself, especially in the Oil and Gas sector. Its next to impossible. The annexures could run into hundreds of pages, half of which will be total incomprehensible mumbo jumbo, especially to a lawyer. Among others, you need to have sound knowledge of physics, chemistry, mathematics, electrical engineering, and of course law.

All the best to Smriti, though.
Right confused 10 Oct 2012, 02:06
+9 -0
AZB, are you serious? They don't even have an infrastructure practice anymore (and never had a partner of any repute ever)

duuuuuude
Dahi Balla and Asociates 10 Oct 2012, 05:30
+1 -0
totally agree with right confused. Confused Zeus is living in some wonder land! AZB for EPC! biggest joke!
Iyer & Iyengar 10 Oct 2012, 05:31
+2 -0
Now NLU Jopdhpur will get ideas to start some B.E.LL.B. type course.
Wake up 10 Oct 2012, 07:31
+5 -0
It is completely incorrect to say that Indian firms do not do project contracts, or EPC contracts or regulatory work. For the uninitiated, many of the big firms have partners doing significant amount of EPC work and also for regulatory work – some firms even hire retired personnel from various regulatory bodies to support lawyers in their regulatory practices!

Companies like BG do have very sophisticated standard form contracts vettted by foreign firms (which are compliant with ICE and other international standards). But that doesn't mean the EPC sector in India work on that basis alone. One only has to take a look at some of the EPC contracts floating around to realise this. Agree, they are often badly drafted, but that is because the stronger party (often the government or a PSU) appoints lawyers who lack the expertise but charge less.

@ Confused Zeus: You are really confused, aren't you? Or a Mumbai lawyer? To say that only AZB has such capabilities is ...
Dahi Balla and Asociates 10 Oct 2012, 05:35
+4 -0
"She explained that established Indian law firms mostly focused on the M&A, investment or financing side, but not many were doing the bulk of project contracts, or engineering, procurement and construction (EPC) contracts or regulatory work.

[b]At BG therefore, she never outsourced such work to law firms, said Subramanian, perhaps because domestic law firms just hadn’t developed that kind of expertise yet unlike abroad.[/b]"

Dont these supposedly smart people realise that what they say will be reported and ready by lawyers. and made fun of if it is BS just like the last second paragraph in the abovementioned quote!

No law firm is well equipped so she did it herself. LOL.
Dahi Papri & Associates 10 Oct 2012, 08:06
+0 -0
[b]Absolutely agree with you :)[/b]
Anonymous guest 10 Oct 2012, 08:10
+4 -0
What utter rubbish.

She's absolutely right, compared to foreign firms, most Indian firms don't like doing this kind of stuff and don't have the practical industry expertise.

You need to have worked with or at an energy company at least to be able to understand EPC work.

Name one Indian infrastructure partner who has expertise like that at one of the major firms, and actually does that kind of work regularly (and well without charging an arm and a leg).

i rest my case.
Wake up 10 Oct 2012, 10:28
+1 -0
"Name one Indian infrastructure partner who has expertise like that at one of the major firms, and actually does that kind of work regularly (and well without charging an arm and a leg)." - Very difficult, especially given that despite such experience, they can't charge high fees if they are to be eligible in your book. ROFL. Only big firms can hire such people i.e. legal bills worth an arm and a leg. If you want an example, take Nitin Banerjee of JSA (ex Trilegal) who spent 5 years with international oil and natural gas major BG Group in India and the UK. If you want more examples, please Google. Don’t make baseless claims without bothering to verify the accuracy of the claim.

"You need to have worked with or at an energy company at least to be able to understand EPC work." – It is RIDICULOUS to say that one needs to have worked at an energy company to be capable of drafting/advising on EPC contracts!! Firstly, EPC contracts are not necessarily about pipelines or drilling platforms i.e. about the “energy” sector. Secondly, its not like the leading lawyers in other practice areas have previously worked in their sector of expertise e.g. not all TMT lawyers have worked in the tech sector. Thirdly, this applies to foreign lawyers as well i.e. a leading healthcare M&A lawyer need not have worked in-house in the healthcare sector. Lawyers learn useful things about clients' businesses / industry sectors while practising as a lawyer. One does not have to work in-house to gain an understanding, although that may be useful.

PEACE.
Anonymous guest 10 Oct 2012, 10:40
+0 -0
Ok, so that's one example, Nitin Banerjee. But he only joined JSA from BG (!!) in August, according to this here
http://www.legallyindia.com/201208083001/Law-firms/jsa-powers-up-energy-with-brit-ong-counsel-nitin-banerjee-as-partner

If that's the only one you can name who regularly does EPC type work in natural resources sector then that actually backs up my case (and Ms Subramaniam's). Happy to be proven wrong but Google does not give any answers.

And, ok, I accept that maybe you don't HAVE to have worked in-house, but it's hard to get that experience in other ways. Chicken and egg. If you don't know how EPC works, company won't instruct you. If they don't instruct you, how do you learn about EPC?

Peace and case rests, again.
gggg 10 Oct 2012, 10:57
+0 -0
"And, ok, I accept that maybe you don't HAVE to have worked in-house, but it's hard to get that experience in other ways. Chicken and egg. If you don't know how EPC works, company won't instruct you. If they don't instruct you, how do you learn about EPC?"

Clients dont instruct you so that you can learn off their transaction (and also bill them for it)!!
Unanimous 11 Oct 2012, 02:48
+0 -0
Here's two ...

L Viswanathan at Amarchand- he charges an arm and a leg, but he bloody well deserves to

Prashanth Sabeshan- at Majmudar now ... hands on the best oil&gas lawyer in the country....

Indian firms have worked extensively on EPC contracts, in power from the 1990s and in oil & gas most recently...

I know at least 2 other very component EPC lawyers...

Don't believe any self-promotional crap everyones comes up with...
Scooter 10 Oct 2012, 11:25
+2 -0
Off hand I can tell you that L. Viswanathan and Santosh Janakiram from AMSS, Mumbai do a lot of EPC. (Check out Chambers and Partners- L. Vish is listed as Band 1 for Pub Procurement). I have also worked with them and they are fantastic. Well, I will not go on how much they charge. I'm sure it wont be more than what their usual charges for other matters is.

JSA also does a lot of EPC work and apologies, I do not know the name of the Partner but do know a few senior associates who do that work and are really good at it.

Bashless sweeping statements do not work my friend. Especially as a lawyer, where it is required of you to be to the point, precise and correct on facts.
Wake up 10 Oct 2012, 12:12
+0 -0
@ Anonymous guest:

You don’t give up, do you? You asked for a name and got one - now you want a list! See Scooter's response. Also, when did I say Nitin is the only expert? My stand is that India has many EPC lawyers. You can’t expect all of them to have in-house tags ’coz lawyers usually move the other way i.e. law firm to in-house. Just so that you know, EPC contracts are quite standard form and model documents for every type of EPC contract are easily available. Please don’t think Ms. S is the only Einstein who can draft EPC contracts (using BG templates) and insult yourself. Today, clients approach leading EPC lawyers. Tomorrow, associates of those lawyers become the leading lawyers. Its not really chicken and egg. Your case rests – IN ITS GRAVE. You would not have made the silly submissions if you were a decent lawyer!

@ scooter - thanks! the anon fellow is a moron. doesn't realise we are trying to throw him/her some light.
Anonymous guest 10 Oct 2012, 16:19
+0 -0
Thanks for your response, even if there was no need to make it so personal. I can admit that I may have been wrong that there are none if these guys really do a lot of EPC.

And maybe the way I put it before was a bit too strong. But I guess the point I (and probably S) are making is that compared to the normal infra, projects and energy lawyers, there are fewer who do EPC work regularly? And almost none who do it cheaply?

Do correct me if I'm wrong (civilly), happy to learn.
Wake up 11 Oct 2012, 07:22
+0 -0
@ Anonymous guest:

I will tell you this and sign off from this meaningless discussion with you.

Your problem is that you can’t admit defeat (I have also said this before) and you pass baseless, insulting, defamatory remarks of sweeping nature about the incapability of other professionals, thus indicating a tendency to display absolute disrespect for others and a willingness to defame people. When you are given proof to the contrary, you can’t even manage to say you were wrong/apologize. What do you mean by “I can admit that I may have been wrong” – why not simply say “sorry, I admit that I was wrong”. To make it worse, when you say “if these guys really do a lot of EPC” you are (a) being uncivil (at least by your standards) by doubting other people on this thread who have, unlike you, backed their comments with facts and (b) you have done so without even bothering to find out whether the “if” and “really” are applicable to the names cited by others in support of their ACCURATE assertions/comments. After all this, you have the b@!!$ to think people are getting personal (when in fact it is you who defamed the whole legal community)! What did you expect? A 21-gun salute and a medal of honour?

People learn law in many ways (not just by working in-house) – it would do you a world of good if you acquired some basic legal skills yourself. If you are a first or second year law student, then this would hopefully have been a good opportunity to learn the importance of backing assertions with research (and how-not-to build your case). If you are anything else, you deserve all the bashing and a title of [...]
Not Wake Up 11 Oct 2012, 12:12
+3 -0
Make no mistake it's just you who's the arrogant dumbass here.
Wake up 12 Oct 2012, 07:12
+0 -0
ROFL. This from someone who doesn't care to elaborate. Not to mention that there are comments similar to mine from quite a few others. You must be ggg or anonymous.
What nonsense 11 Oct 2012, 07:28
+0 -0
If there are fewer people doing EPC as compared to other infra work, that is surely not the basis to say all that you have said. Tomorrow you will say that because there are fewer patent specialists as compared to IPR lawyers, Indian lawyers cannot service clients who need patent advise.

And what is the obsession with cheap lawyering? You can't buy specialists for peanuts in any jurisdiction.
@ LI team 11 Oct 2012, 08:23
+0 -0
Please publish my response (posted as "Wake up") to "Anonymous Guest". Moderate if you like, but please publish it. He needs to hear what was said.
Not Wake Up 11 Oct 2012, 12:13
+3 -0
and especially after this obsessive follow-up comment!
Ex AMSS 10 Oct 2012, 15:15
+0 -0
Santosh's expertise is quite varied. He is an expert on, and does a lot of things, but not EPC.

L. Vichu though is a star and has a decade's head start on Santosh. So it would again be unfair putting them in the same bracket.
Wilbury 10 Oct 2012, 16:11
+1 -0
While it may not be fair to bracket them, there is no doubt that Santosh is an absolute stud when it comes to EPC. In uncluttered intelligence and sheer out of the box thinking, he stands alone in this arena.

I am very surprised that no one has mentioned the absolute No.1 in this field - Piyush Joshi from Clarus. But then, you must all be kids.
Kishen 10 Oct 2012, 19:07
+2 -0
[quote name="Scooter"]Off hand I can tell you that L. Viswanathan and Santosh Janakiram from AMSS, Mumbai do a lot of EPC. (Check out Chambers and Partners- L. Vish is listed as Band 1 for Pub Procurement). I have also worked with them and they are fantastic. Well, I will not go on how much they charge. I'm sure it wont be more than what their usual charges for other matters is.

JSA also does a lot of EPC work and apologies, I do not know the name of the Partner but do know a few senior associates who do that work and are really good at it.

Bashless sweeping statements do not work my friend. Especially as a lawyer, where it is required of you to be to the point, precise and correct on facts.[/quote]

I know Santosh. He is many things and from his impressive track record at AMSS I can say he is certainly a stud (literally) but EPC contracts is not his forte. In fact he has very little to do with infrastructure for that matter. He is cyril's backup to Vishwanathan and has some regulatory experience but EPC?? Not really.
Car 11 Oct 2012, 07:45
+0 -0
[quote name="Kishen"][quote name="Scooter"]Off hand I can tell you that L. Viswanathan and Santosh Janakiram from AMSS, Mumbai do a lot of EPC. (Check out Chambers and Partners- L. Vish is listed as Band 1 for Pub Procurement). I have also worked with them and they are fantastic. Well, I will not go on how much they charge. I'm sure it wont be more than what their usual charges for other matters is.

JSA also does a lot of EPC work and apologies, I do not know the name of the Partner but do know a few senior associates who do that work and are really good at it.

Bashless sweeping statements do not work my friend. Especially as a lawyer, where it is required of you to be to the point, precise and correct on facts.[/quote]

I know Santosh. He is many things and from his impressive track record at AMSS I can say he is certainly a stud (literally) but EPC contracts is not his forte. In fact he has very little to do with infrastructure for that matter. He is cyril's backup to Vishwanathan and has some regulatory experience but EPC?? Not really.[/quote]


Dont know how well you know him. But he has far more experience with EPC than on the regulatory side.
Dahi Balla and Asociates 10 Oct 2012, 11:19
+0 -0
Corrigendum-

"....'read' by lawyers and made fun of if its is....."
Dahi Balla and Asociates 10 Oct 2012, 06:28
+0 -0
last two comments censored?
There are a few 11 Oct 2012, 06:26
+0 -0
Akshay Jaitley one of the Trilegal founders. He's been doing this sort of work for donkey's years, in the beginning abroad with Ashurst. Been ranked highly for many years - read Legal 500 etc. Some people don't blow their own trumpets but just get on with the work.

Vichu and Santosh are (very good) financing lawyers more than they are EPC-type lawyers. Jatin Aneja also does this sort of work, but he does other stuff as well, so not sure how highly specialised he is.
Car 11 Oct 2012, 07:46
+0 -0
If you are beacketing Vish and Santosh as financing lawyers (especially Vish), check your facts.
There are a few 11 Oct 2012, 08:39
+0 -0
More financing (project finance) than EPC and regulatory, Car.
car 11 Oct 2012, 09:44
+0 -0
More PF than EPC agree. Lvish equally does regulatory. However, do know that there is limited EPC work in the market and no infra practice can thrive only on EPC (unless you are a boutique firm)
Add more to the list 11 Oct 2012, 08:04
+1 -0
Pranjal Bora (now on sabbatical I am told) and Sameen Vyas of Luthra. And quite a few of the associates who have worked on EPC contracts with them.

Projects lawyers do EPC as and when they get such mandates. Globally, few lawyers would do only EPC.
gggg 11 Oct 2012, 09:37
+0 -0
Get out of it. No need to start a thread on who are the EPC lawyers in this country. Some of the names you have mentioned may not even want to be identified as an EPC lawyer on this site. Have they submitted their CVs to you so that you may take their names as EPC lawyers? this news article is about Ms. Smriti and Advaya. Dont drag other lawyer's name like Vishwanathan, Santosh, Piyush, Nitin, Pranjal, Sameen etc. What if they dont like to be publicised or advertised or what if they are not comfortable with their names/areas of practice being put on LI and advertisting/public forums? enough of this.
Kian, i dont think that the comments are relevant to the topic
fffff 11 Oct 2012, 10:00
+0 -0
Of course its relevant, since the person interviewed took a swing and said, there are not enough EPC lawyers/ project lawyers in the Indian market
gggg 11 Oct 2012, 10:21
+0 -0
The person interviewed is only trying to sell her skill set by saying that there are no EPC lawyers in this country (howsoever naive it may sound). We all know that when the EPC contractor is not related to the project developer, there is always an external law firm involved to advise the EOC contractor or the developer.
Further, EPC contracts have a lot of tax issues and no in-house counsel takes call on tax matters and would invariably look to tax practitioners to advise on VAT/service tax.
Further, there are FIDIC books (silver, etc.) which lays out formats for EPC contracts, which are globally used as templates.
And, without taking anything away from Ms. Smriti, BG has used external counsel in the past to advise them on EPC matters. But, being an in-house lawyer for BG, she is in the best position to confirm.
Disgusting 11 Oct 2012, 11:24
+0 -0
Who are you to object on behalf of the lawyers named - they can speak for themselves. And who are you to police what others are writing? WTF! We can take any names that we want as far as we discuss info in the public domain. Last I checked, only defamatory statements were illegal. Mr. Anonymous and Ms. S have done exactly that by saying there are no EPC lawyers around. [...] Also, you say "We all know" without noticing that some people (including Mr. Anon and Ms. S) clearly don't know / want people to believe otherwise. [...]

Many law students and litigators visit this forum and they won't be conned about the corporate law scene by people making incorrect statements. Don't see what's your itch. Are you working at Advaya or acting as the PRO of the EPC lawyers named?
Lyril 12 Oct 2012, 05:39
+0 -0
Welcome Govt. Of India to LI!
car 11 Oct 2012, 09:45
+0 -0
totallt agree on the second para.
and then there were none.... 11 Oct 2012, 10:02
+0 -0
EPC in India, is primarily tax driven, a lot of the firms, BMR for example, have a very good EPC teams, but then you guys would not know that would you, since none of you are projects/ infrastructure lawyers....
Wake up 11 Oct 2012, 12:27
+2 -0
Some aspects of EPC contracts are structured on the basis of tax advice. But to draft/negotiate an EPC contract, people approach projects/infra lawyers with the relevant experience. Fyi, I have practised projects/infra (including EPC). Don't know what led you to say "you guys would not know that would you, since none of you are projects/ infrastructure lawyers...."! I won't say something like "nobody goes to BMR for EPC work, do they" :)
and then there were none.... 11 Oct 2012, 15:26
+0 -0
Arre wake up, gussa kyu kar rahe ho... I was talking about the ignormous comments above... tu to EPC ka sher hain...

My primary objection is to someone coming out and saying there are no lawyers with EPC experience in the Indian markets, and then a bunch of fools saying, Vish is more financing than EPC...

The fact remains that there are rarely pure "EPC" transactions, or a lawyer being engaged only for EPC work (except, increasingly, in real estate projects). Typically the developer's counsel will do most of the work, including EPC, as a part of their mandate. So its stupid to say that a company will engage X firm for their other project work and Y for EPC. Similarly stupid to say that Vish will do only EPC work and not financing...

Dil pe mat le yaar...
Lyril 12 Oct 2012, 05:40
+0 -0
I am.
Anon 14 Oct 2012, 10:03
+0 -0
Its "Jaitly" and not "Jaitley".
Cyril ... 11 Oct 2012, 07:47
+2 -0
and i thought this post was about Advaya.
abc 11 Oct 2012, 08:50
+0 -0
haha - thats a good one. Couldnt agree more :)
Lyril Shroff 11 Oct 2012, 09:47
+1 -0
Arrey...what if the above was actually CS. dont you think your website is big enough for him to read and comment? come on kian! you are doing a good job! the big wigs can read and comment too!
kianganz 11 Oct 2012, 09:52
+0 -0
Hehe, yeah, but it wasn't CS, now was it, who'd commented? :)
churail shroff 11 Oct 2012, 10:52
+0 -0
i am sure that the big wigs visit this site regularly, though they may not be posting comments
Lyril 12 Oct 2012, 05:44
+0 -0
You never know Kian..You never know!! There could be two as well!
An EPC lawyer 11 Oct 2012, 09:55
+0 -0
JSA's Nitin doesnt do EPC work. He does other oil and gas stuff. Pallavi Bedi does the EPC work under Sumanto Basu.
i am not kishen 11 Oct 2012, 10:47
+3 -0
Subramanian said. “My own take on established law firms is, their structures are very firm and the ways they do business are almost cast in stone – very partner-led and very little space for doing your creative bit.”

I want to join a firm which is associate-led...or even better, intern-led
person 11 Oct 2012, 15:17
+0 -0
yup... i myself have rather enjoyed walking behind some interns. such an enjoyable experience.
boss 11 Oct 2012, 11:10
+0 -0
50 plus comments. I think she or advaya didn't expect that. All for a comment that there may not be good EPC lawyers in India.
LI should start moderating comments more strictly. come on, not a single congratulatory or "all the best" comment. people here are just taking out frustrations, trying to put the person who is covered, with their comments. And this is a growing trend on this forum.
Perhaps LI will be more sensible to moderate comments, for LI's own good, else people will stop giving interviews to LI, given all these negativity.

Congrats Smriti... and all the very best at Advaya !!
Huh 11 Oct 2012, 12:30
+1 -0
I think it is clear that nobody likes baseless comments that question the legal fratenity - I won't be surprised if there are 50 more comments. A good majority of the comments are directed at one Mr. Anonymous who supported the claim that India lacks EPC lawyers and then refused to eat his/her hat.
Joker 15 Oct 2012, 05:59
+0 -0
and lo. the doors of advaya open for you
Easy Pee Expert 11 Oct 2012, 11:51
+6 -0
Why this commotion? Yeh EPC kya hai?
Lyril 12 Oct 2012, 05:46
+0 -0
yeh EPC nahi jaanta!! yeh EPC nahi jaanta!!

someone will jump saying Indian lawyers dont even know what EPC is!! Kian censor his comment to save Indian lawyers reputation! Its all in your hands Kian!
Kishen 14 Oct 2012, 00:13
+1 -1
Wow, the comments above are an ignormous' dream - as is the subject of their comments.

1. Anyone who has practised commercial law for a few years would know that there is no such thing as a dedicated 'EPC' practice or 'EPC' firm. The knowledge base for drafting an EPC (Engineering-Procurement-Construction) contract is general ability to draft contracts, some precedents and lots of general experience. Experienced lawyers of all hues - whether finance or projects, general corporate, real estate and M&A - draft these babies and as an insider I can tell you that they dont involve a great deal of skill nor are they themselves the subject matter of a deal.

2. Typically the vast bulk of EPC contracts are very standard (as with financing agreements) and outside counsel are not involved. The few that are critical invariably are drafted by the biggies such as Amarchand or AZB. There are very very few such assignments at these firms in a year so no one can sit on his ass and be called an EPC lawyer.

3. To build on what i said above, in-house counsel at places like BG typically do the nuts and bolts of the standardised EPC contracts. This means looking to see if company resolutions, articles are ok, rather than actually drafting the contracts.

4. The profile of being an in-house counsel is pretty pretty sidey anywhere in the world, more so in India where they are treated (and paid) like dirt. Within the in-house counsel pecking order, finance and PE firms top and places like BG / HUL are at the bottom. Little wonder BG got a lawyer from an equally sidey firm like ELP. No self-respecting lawyer at the big firms would touch a job like this with a barge pole. [...]

5. Lastly BG India has very little to do with EPC. It has a very small footprint in the country, and is not a provider of EPC services. There's very little experience to be gained there apart from being a parking lot for 3rd class lawyers.

[...]
I am a Kishen fan 15 Oct 2012, 06:29
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Kishen, wow ! you just never cease to amaze me. either you are a senior advocate/managing partner of a top law firm or did you have a troubled childhood?

"parking lot for 3rd class lawyers". Great comment. I will use it next time I meet an in-house counsel. But then, they are the ones who law firm lawyers depend on for work. Did that thought ever strike you?
Scooter 15 Oct 2012, 10:59
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does the fact that the firm depends on them for work make them better?

bisleri draws water from Ganga. Which one is cleaner?
Kitchen 15 Oct 2012, 12:16
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No this is turning into an in-house versus law firm debate. Do you have any idea how atrocious law firm associates, and even partners are? Even top tier law firms boast of splendid specimens. Overrated thugs.
Kishen 15 Oct 2012, 21:09
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[quote name="Kitchen"]No this is turning into an in-house versus law firm debate. Do you have any idea how atrocious law firm associates, and even partners are? Even top tier law firms boast of splendid specimens. Overrated thugs.[/quote]

I mostly agree, top tier firms boast a few horrible lawyers. But top tier law firms have on average better lawyers than top tier companies (at least in India). In my time at law school and nearly all succeeding batches most of the folks who got into companies as in-house counsel or ended up there did it for lack of options. Guys like Pramod, etc. who became legal heads at companies are simply no match for Umakanth or Vishwanathan at Amarchand. Smriti may be an exception, she may not be, bur I suspect if she had the straight A route to an amarchand partnership she would have opted for that long ago.
Scooter 16 Oct 2012, 09:07
+0 -0
Agree with Kishen.
not so long ago.... 18 Oct 2012, 10:03
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thats not true of the years gone by, when some straight As did join in house not for lack of options, but because of moolah!!Once upon a time, not so long ago, starting salaries in house could be 3 times of top law firms. A lot of companies have been day 1 (when day 0 did not exist) recruiters at top law schools. Of course, the times they have a changed a lot and no in house can now match the law firm salaries.
nathu ki dukaant 22 Oct 2012, 13:12
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some of us choose in house in spite of straight A because we choose not to work in lalaji outfits. Also, the best brains are neither in house, nor law firms but arguing in Supreme Court and taking 25 L home a day.
Scooter 15 Oct 2012, 10:59
+0 -0
God! I am so bored. I need a vacation!
Scooter 15 Oct 2012, 13:09
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Its called wikipedia syndrome (I just coined the term). You start somewhere and end up somewhere else...