CLB fines Amarchand Delhi for negligent affidavits; Firm sacks two associates

Amarchand Delhi office: Should not happen
Amarchand Delhi office: Should not happen
Exclusive: Amarchand Mangaldas was fined Rs 50,000 by the Company Law Board (CLB) in Delhi on Friday and the firm today dismissed two associates for the allegedly negligent advice.

The CLB in its order of 17 August rebuked the firm for the negligent advice given in relation to two affidavits filed before the CLB in a petition by the firm’s client Rupak Gupta against Banaras House Pvt Ltd, explained Delhi managing partner Shardul Shroff.

The affidavits contained serious errors according to the order, said Shroff, and were prepared without partner approval by one principal associate designate and one three-year-qualified associate, who was mentioned by name in the order.

As soon as the partner in charge of the client, Ritu Bhalla, found out about the error on 6 August, she filed a rectification affidavit with the CLB, noted Shroff, which resulted in the CLB bench passing the order on 17 August. Bhalla was not reachable for comment at the time of going to press.

“We have not taken this at all lightly,” Shroff said, admitting that “this should never have happened”.

The two associates had “filed affidavits quite recklessly without showing the supervising partner and made one mistake after the other after the other”, he noted. “They should have just brought it to the notice of the partner… It is a failing of their standards, that’s why they got dismissed.”

“We don’t brook this as acceptable behaviour internally. The action at our end is to ensure that proper procedure [is put in place…] and we need to tighten up procedures so that nobody can do it.”

The firm was continuing to examine the order, which Shroff only became aware of at 3pm today, and is further investigating the circumstances surrounding the events.

The two associates were not reachable for comment at the time of going to press.

The Economic Times reported this evening that the finance ministry has asked state-owned banks and insurers to take up issues of advocates’ and chartered accountants’ misconduct with regulating bodies, such as the Bar Council of India (BCI) or the Institute for Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI), rather than merely striking the advisers from their panel.

Update: Shardul Shroff has released a longer statement explaining the events surrounding the affidavits and the firm’s position. Click here to read.

Clarification: The initial version of the story stated in an indirect quote that Ms Bhalla was the partner “nominally” in charge of the client, which was paraphrasing the statements made but was not a direct quote.

Comments

Poetic Justice 20 Aug 2012, 14:11
+24 -0
Spare the partner, shoot the associate.
desi lawyer 20 Aug 2012, 20:30
+4 -0
I am surprised that the principal issue of negligent advise to client by law firms and availability of proper remedies to clients has not been addressed. Please check the stringent client care norms prescribed by SRA in England for a perspective on what should have ideally happened here.

Honestly, most law firms are likely to be guilty for similar acts but lack of any remedy leaves the client in the cold.
Lawyer 21 Aug 2012, 09:28
+3 -0
This firm and many other like it would have shut shop long back if we had stringent regulations and professional indemnity provisions like those under SRA.
Scapegoats?? 20 Aug 2012, 14:14
+21 -0
It will be interesting to know the Associates' views as well. Very convenient to say that the affidavit in question was prepared without partner approval.
Virar Fast 20 Aug 2012, 16:13
+4 -0
It doesn't matter what the Associates have to say. Its AMSS, they have probably been warned to stick to the "official" version of the firm.
Anonymous, obviously 20 Aug 2012, 14:29
+15 -0
And if it was mistake after the other after the other, then it cannot be a case of an associate filing one document and not getting partner approval and more likely a case of the partner being too busy to supervise properly which is systemic of at least one particular firm.
Fire the Partner 20 Aug 2012, 14:31
+9 -0
Mr. Shroff should consider firing the partner for letting the application being filed without "partner review" - shows the lack of involvement of big law firm partners in real work. The partner should take moral responsibility (if not actual responsibility) and resign. Its easy to fire the poor associates.
Fire partner 21 Aug 2012, 17:40
+3 -0
First improve standards of lawyer working law firms because they know only how get work not result.take action who are remiss
Abc 20 Aug 2012, 14:33
+12 -0
How can a partner not know ?! That's shocking. It's a partners job to know what is being filed. Unbelievable.
Ex Amarchandi 20 Aug 2012, 14:35
+6 -1
Good Job Shardulbhai... Keep it up...
Legally Absurd 20 Aug 2012, 14:39
+9 -1
This news should not have been reported Kian, think of the associates!! It may well also be a case of the wrong people being held accountable.
Rockefeller 20 Aug 2012, 14:39
+7 -0
Should'nt the Partner take moral responsibility and quit?
Fire the Peon 20 Aug 2012, 14:41
+34 -1
I am sure it was actually the peon who filed the affidavit. He should be fired for not getting the partner approval and not actively participating in the system to ensure that such mishaps don't happen.
Job security if ur a Partner 20 Aug 2012, 15:08
+7 -1
HA HA HA HA!!! Awesome comment mate. You are the true 'Partner' potential.


IT is quite clear that the associates were screwed over royally. Wonder if they will ever make it into a major 'corp lawfirm' ever again..
legally aware 20 Aug 2012, 15:01
+10 -0
Well its a catch 22 situation

1. I am sure there have been instances where affidavits have been filed without partner approval. In this instance, they got it wrong. They got sacked because it was noticed.

2. If the partner had to approve, there is a likelihood that she would have chided the pa designate saying that a pa designate should not be supervised on such minor documents.

So its the partner who needs to be questioned on how she manages her TEAM.
Junior Lawyer 20 Aug 2012, 15:10
+13 -0
Partners are there to take credit and juniors are there to take blame!!!! Lawyers should first stand up for their rights, then only it's worth being a Lawyer!!! Let's us wait if we ever come to know of any mistake committed by a member of the family .
Anon 20 Aug 2012, 15:28
+5 -0
In my view this episode has revealed a very disturbing trend in the legal profession. Clients must wake up and should resist being influenced by branding as the only reason to head to a reputed firm. After all, legal profession is one involving personal rendering of services. However, due to the growth and the desire to add on more clients, sometimes, firms fail to bring the so much required personal touch to every mandate that comes to the firm. By "firm", I mean the equity partners. A firm is only its partners and not the associates, who should only be used for assistance. If any associate is deserving of handling work absolutely on his own, then he ought to be given equity and elevated as a partner. Thats how you can fix accountability.

Clients get drawn to the marquee firms by the branding and the ratings. However, a client gets the benefit of engaging a marquee firm, only if it can be ensured that the name-partner heading the vertical is actually and closely involved in the matter. That can happen in larger firms only with more partners and higher fees.
partner 20 Aug 2012, 15:32
+9 -0
Whatever happened to leading ones team from the front? It's the partners job to manage associates' follies within the team. With voluminous work being handled, some amount of oversights and errors are bound to creep in. This I have seen is the case with all, I repeat, ALL law firms I have ever dealt with. This reflects very poorly on amarchand and it's partners.
insideman 20 Aug 2012, 15:45
+12 -0
from what i know the PA-D had already put in his papers nearly a month ago and his last date in the firm is the 31st of this month.

what is not known if whether the PA-D is receiving additional compensation for also taking the 'fall' for this mess created by the negligence of the partner in question.
A.anon 20 Aug 2012, 15:51
+26 -0
The two associates were driven by the partner, [...]

The next day the PA caught the mistake and pointed it out to her. He suggested the rectification application. She said some stuff to him I will not repeat here. He resigned because of what she said to him...he was not sacked. The resignation e-mail was bombastic [...]
XYZ 20 Aug 2012, 16:16
+3 -0
I think we will soon hear how the partner in question left for greener pastures.... and how the firm wishes her will in her future
Partner 20 Aug 2012, 16:20
+6 -0
There must be several drafts exchanged between Amarchand and its client with a cc to Ms. Bhalla. It’s a normal practice which is being followed by all law firms. So, where is the question of Ms. Bhalla being not aware about all this and on the top of it she has fired juniors. Her team should learn a lesson from t his and should immediately change their team.
Intrigued 20 Aug 2012, 16:26
+1 -0
Kian, any subsequent efforts to reach the associates / partner in question for their comments? Or is this only an official press release?
abc 20 Aug 2012, 16:38
+3 -0
where can i get a copy of the order?
Anon 20 Aug 2012, 17:08
+1 -0
Any clue where a copy of the order may be obtained from?

Copy of the order should clear whether there were "one mistake after the other after the other" in the supporting affidavit, or if there was "one mistake after the other after the other" in the subsequent strategy.
Ex AMSS 20 Aug 2012, 16:47
+17 -0
What a shocking reaction by AMSS. The Partners dont even have the courage to stand up for their soldiers. How convenient to put it on poor Associates. This is frankly reprehensible behaviour and shows a total lack of spine in AMSS and lack of true leadership. Real leaders never act like this. No one can every deny that in a law firm partnership, it is the partners who are ultimately responsible for the end product which they put out. Never the Associates. And AMSS makes a scapegoat of the poor Associates! The concerned partner is convenient unavailable for comment.

[...] What a sad day. Why should any client rely on a Firm who conveniently shields their Partners from mistakes they make and are quick to make scapegoats of Associates - as young as three years in the profession!
Censoring? 20 Aug 2012, 17:38
+2 -0
Kian, why is my reference to one of the brothers being censored? Was there anything wrong in saying he would not have behaved like this? AMSS HR machinery is actively liasing with you evidently.
Please explain 20 Aug 2012, 16:48
+4 -0
Also what is the meaning of " partner nominally in charge of the client,". Partners are nominally and substantially in charge of a client? What new concepts are created to shield Partners who act incompetently and then put it on hapless Associates.

[Editorial clarification: The initial version of the story stated in an indirect quote that Ms Bhalla was the partner “nominally” in charge of the client, which was paraphrasing the statements made but was not a direct quote.]
LI 20 Aug 2012, 16:54
+15 -0
LI - kudos to you for bringing the story out. I used to think (unfairly) that you would never publish anything negative about a big firm.
reality 20 Aug 2012, 17:01
+1 -0
the supervising partner must be close to the founder / equity partners and since he/she must be related to some influential guy, they anyways can't sack him or he must be an "imported lawyer", who for whatever reasons is sticking around the firm and they cant tell the partner anything and hence bechara associates.
Jaggerth 20 Aug 2012, 17:02
+28 -0
Ludicrous! The final responsibility for a firm's work product must lie with the partner handling the matter, and no one else. It cannot be any other way. The two honourable things that AMSS could have done were to:

1) Reprimand the team for the error, apologise to the client, offered them a fee waiver, or whatever it is that would have made them happy and left things as they were; or

2) Suspend/dismiss the partner, if at all they had to suspend/dismiss anyone. This whole 'prepared without partner supervision' story reflects very very poorly on the firm's internal practices, integrity and its commitment to its employees.

Lawyers often make errors. Some are rectifiable, such as this one, and others far more catastrophic. This whole episode would have reflected much better on the firm if they hadn't hung the associate and the PA-designate out to dry on the grounds of an affidavit having been filed "without partner review." Absolutely appalling stuff from AMSS.
Stunned 20 Aug 2012, 17:03
+4 -0
The CLB judgement does mention Ms. Ritu Bhalla as one of the advocates for the Petitioner. It also mentions the deplorable behaviour of one advocate in particular. There is more to this than meets the eye.
Malpractice 20 Aug 2012, 17:17
+2 -0
I quite wonder what malpractice insurance is for. This is a pittance 50 grand fine and doesn't at least appear to have affected AMSS' client prejudicially in the proceeding. The error was clearly spotted within the firm well in advance and no action seems to have been taken at that point in time. Clearly, the clb order cannot be the reason to fire somebody when you knew of the problem well in advance. By the end of the day, AMSS would have found itself with a super pissed client, and probably one who was taking the brief back. This doesn't deserve the public overreaction we are witnessing.
Sensible 20 Aug 2012, 17:23
+1 -0
All comments here are one-sided. Lets look at this from AMSS side too. Should it tell the world that one of its partners made a mistake and risk losing lot of business or should it scarifice the associates involved and retain the client confidence at least at the partner level. From an institution's perspective, at some level, this move is justified. To clarify however,I also do not support alientating the associates in this situation but wanted to present another point of view.
Honourable 20 Aug 2012, 17:36
+8 -0
Yes it should have told the client it made a mistake and the Partner should have taken this on the chin. That is called being honorable. And that is what matters. A client would also appreciate that. You think in this scenario the client is happy now that the Associate has been fired? Clients are smart and can see through such shams. In any event, nothing is more important than holding up to honor, especially in this profession.
Phew 20 Aug 2012, 17:24
+2 -0
Has anyone actually read the judgement? Quite apart from the various mistakes, there was a deliberate attempt to mislead the Court by stating false facts in the affidavit. That is unforgivable.
PITASHRI 21 Aug 2012, 06:55
+0 -0
[quote name="Phew"]Has anyone actually read the judgement? Quite apart from the various mistakes, there was a deliberate attempt to mislead the Court by stating false facts in the affidavit. That is unforgivable.[/quote]
[quote name="Phew"]Has anyone actually read the judgement? Quite apart from the various mistakes, there was a deliberate attempt to mislead the Court by stating false facts in the affidavit. That is unforgivable.[/quote]
THIS EXPLAINS SOME OF THE SO CALLED MISTAKES. THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A RELUCTANCE TO SWEAR THE FALSEHOODS IN THEIR OWN NAME AND WHY THE LADY CONCERNED SWORE AT THEM FOR BEING HAND IN GLOVE WITH THE OPPOSITE SIDE.
KoolKat 20 Aug 2012, 17:26
+13 -0
Can the Bar Council of India please reprimand Shardul for this ridiculous behaviour?

Bar Council of India: This is your opportunity to redeem yourself. You want to shut someone down? Fight Amarchand, yo. EVERYONE will approve!
... 20 Aug 2012, 17:31
+3 -0
i know that in this firm its not the associates fault..how they can know what is wrong or right...the partner always checks...fire the partner and not the associate...
Delhilawyer 20 Aug 2012, 17:48
+14 -0
This is absolutely ridiculous. Ms. Bhalla should be sacked instead. The mandates AMSS issues to it clients clearly records that the overall responsibility of the matter lies with the partner.

It is bizarre that these two associates have been pulled up and not Ms. Bhalla. In the capacity of a partner in charge of the matter, she ought to have known or rather should have ensured that a correct filing happened.

However, knowing how AMSS works, it is unlikely for it to take any action against Ms. Bhalla who is a loyalist and continued to be a salaried partner for over 20 years before being offered a peanut size equity stake in the firm.

As we all know that several smart people have left AMSS merely because of Ms. Bhalla's tempramental issues [...]
Delhilawyer 20 Aug 2012, 18:54
+9 -0
Ms. Bhalla has no sense of responsibility whatsoever. Incidents like these makes one wonder that why do we need a partner at all. Partners take home salaries several times more than that of an associate, it is only logical that they would have a higher degree of responsibility towards the matters so assigned to them. If associates have to take the fall on behalf of the partners, it is will be trite for them to also get the salary of a partner.

However, it would be interesting to now see Mr. and Mrs. Shroff paginating, stamping true copy and affixing their initials on all pleadings filed by AMSS hereinafter.

All A0's and court clerks can now be relieved of this clerical task which they are required to do and the failure of which may result in them being sacked (without enjoying RB's salary).
abc 20 Aug 2012, 17:53
+8 -0
Kian the least you can do is protect the identity of the associates. They don't get to present their side and if they are scrap goats then their careers would be jeopardized by all this.
thank god we r not in amss! 20 Aug 2012, 17:55
+6 -0
wow...so the juniour most ppl take the brunt of gross oversight by the partner...amss sure sounds like a great place to work at..

pity the associates...though with a firm like that its good riddance..[...] ..all that was to be done was own up..and be careful in the future..strangling the associates was the dumbest thing ever
Unanimous 20 Aug 2012, 18:01
+21 -0
Perhaps for the first time in LI history there is an absolute unanimity of view. AMSS action is deplorable. Mistakes, no mistakes, its the action of the FIRM. Whatever internally may have gone wrong or not is not the concern of the world. A press statement blaming the associates is a behaviour unbecoming of the largest firm of this country. Its unthinkable. Imagine CAG saying "Damn that report was prepared by a juniour officer". A supreme court judge saying "Blast my court clerk, FIRE him - he typed this out". An auditor saying "It wasnt me guys - it was these three idiots". But I noticed it. I am God. I cannot believe the statements made here. What the hell happened to taking responsibility? Or is that left to the kids to figure out...
Malpractice 21 Aug 2012, 07:48
+0 -0
[quote name="Unanimous"]Perhaps for the first time in LI history there is an absolute unanimity of view. AMSS action is deplorable. Mistakes, no mistakes, its the action of the FIRM. Whatever internally may have gone wrong or not is not the concern of the world. A press statement blaming the associates is a behaviour unbecoming of the largest firm of this country. Its unthinkable. Imagine CAG saying "Damn that report was prepared by a juniour officer". A supreme court judge saying "Blast my court clerk, FIRE him - he typed this out". An auditor saying "It wasnt me guys - it was these three idiots". But I noticed it. I am God. I cannot believe the statements made here. What the hell happened to taking responsibility? Or is that left to the kids to figure out...[/quote]
To add one more to your list of comparisons, Manmohan Singh blaming Raja for 2G. And whats common is you wait to see if shit hits the roof before doing that.
.... 20 Aug 2012, 18:20
+9 -0
so this was their idea of damage control...whoever came up with this flash of geneus should be the one who gets fired.
Anon 20 Aug 2012, 18:20
+8 -0
This news was published at 7:31 PM. The junior associate resigned out of frustration at 8.00 PM. Did you(LI) even try to reach the Associates for their views?
Dark Knight 20 Aug 2012, 18:38
+9 -0
Excellent - so partners take the credit for the victory and the associate takes the fall for negligence. If AMSS really wanted to clean up its act they would have fired the partner.
ex-amss 20 Aug 2012, 18:57
+22 -0
The firing of the associates was totally unwarranted because of the following reasons:

1. The team in question had incredibly long working hours (even my amss standards). Working 16 hour a day, day after day, some mistakes will be expected, irrespective of how good a lawyer you are. As lawyers, we all work hard, but if pushed beyond a certain point, mistakes are bound to happen. Hence, what is actually to be blamed is the sweat-shop culture that amarchand has developed. The way ahead for amss should now be how to shift focus on the quality of the work as opposed to the quantity of the work, which is the case at present.

2. It is very important to get the facts right in this case. The principal associate (who joing amss just a few months back) was NOT fired because of the mistake in question but he put in his papers because of the way he was treated when brought the mistake to the attention of the partner in question, which she should have done in the first place. The 3 years associate in question had been in a non-lit team his entire career and had shifted to a lit team only 6 months ago. How can you put the entire blame for a mistake on the shoulders of one associate who has had only 6 months exp. in lit?

3. For a mistake like this, disciplinary action was mandated for the associates, and not firing them outright. Mistakes like these happen in the lit teams of law firms, and normally result with a slap on the wrist. But if youre going to fire someone, fire the partner and not the associate. The partner may have been a person 'nominally in charge", but how much do you want to bet that when the bill went to the client,he would have been billed a dozen or more hours @ 400 dollars an hour by the partner for "review of the work" and "finalizing drafts"? IF youre charging such outrageous amounts for finalizing drafts, you should atleast see the draft once, right?

[Editorial clarification: The initial version of the story stated in an indirect quote that Ms Bhalla was the partner “nominally” in charge of the client, which was paraphrasing the statements made but was not a direct quote.]
Inside Outside 20 Aug 2012, 19:41
+10 -0
[quote name="ex-amss"]The firing of the associates was totally unwarranted because of the following reasons...[/quote]

The firm should release the time sheets in relation to this matter to show how nominally involved the partner is.
Slackcutter 20 Aug 2012, 19:58
+11 -0
Trilegal is firing people left right and centre because partners cant bring in enough revenues. Lets cut AMSS some slack.
Cutting Slacks 20 Aug 2012, 20:00
+4 -0
Yes yes we must cut poor AMSS some slack, bechaare.
Inside Outside 20 Aug 2012, 20:01
+1 -0
That's not true. They are the best firm in the Indian market.
Slicker 21 Aug 2012, 05:46
+2 -0
Is Trilegal firing lawyers or partners?
Hashim 21 Aug 2012, 05:49
+1 -0
Shardul cant be reviewing every affidavit filed by the firm but he certainly needs to ensure that his partners and lawyers operate at some basic standard.
Legally Absurd 21 Aug 2012, 06:17
+2 -0
[quote name="Slackcutter"]Trilegal is firing people left right and centre because partners cant bring in enough revenues. Lets cut AMSS some slack.[/quote]

Is this true? Can tell that some lawyers at Trilegal are truly world class and A&O would be happy to have them, the rest, well...
WTF 22 Aug 2012, 12:38
+0 -0
What is the R2C i.e. Reference to context?
... 20 Aug 2012, 20:07
+2 -0
Has the AMSS HR sprung into action suddenly. Cutting slack be damned.
Anon 21 Aug 2012, 04:32
+5 -0
The associates may have been wrong, and perhaps were rightly dismissed, but Ms. Bhalla should have been suitably reprimanded as well.

Having worked at AMSS I know for sure that the associates there are often left without adequate (or any) guidance from partners and thrust with responsibility they may or may not be willing to take. There are equity partners at the firm featuring high on the who's who list (surprisingly!) not even coming to work for days altogether because they are busy renovating their new homes, or worse, some partners who are bad lawyers but designated partners because, well, they just outlived the others.

Blaming the associates is plain ridiculous, but a painfully predictable reaction from the Shroffs.
amarchandlawyer 21 Aug 2012, 05:07
+15 -0
If the order was passed on Friday then why did Shardul only become aware of it at 3:00 p.m yesterday? Is he nominally in charge of the firm then?
Hahaha! 21 Aug 2012, 05:28
+0 -0
[quote name="amarchandlawyer"]If the order was passed on Friday then why did Shardul only become aware of it at 3:00 p.m yesterday? Is he nominally in charge of the firm then?[/quote]

Good one, dude !
Lawyer 21 Aug 2012, 05:39
+3 -0
Very sad incident really. What's the meaning of a partner being "nominally" in charge, when her name appears as "Counsel for the Petitioner" in the order?

Kian: as per your research is the this the first time that a law firm in India has been indicted by a judicial forum and exemplary fine has been imposed?

On a more serious note it shows complete lack of training at AMSS for the lit guys. You can't have kids join you from law school and become "Know All", you need to instill discipline, make them aware of nitty gritties and impart knowledge continuously. Yes, the associate was careless but its not only their fault, its a systemic issue at AMSS.

[Editorial clarification: The initial version of the story stated in an indirect quote that Ms Bhalla was the partner “nominally” in charge of the client, which was paraphrasing the statements made but was not a direct quote.]
Legally Absurd 21 Aug 2012, 05:43
+3 -0
I have to say that except for JSA and Luthra, most other law firms seem to treat their associates very poorly. Would re-emphasize Kian, keep identities of the lawyers secret, to the extent possible for you.
? 21 Aug 2012, 06:23
+6 -0
"Luthra" treating associates right - pal uv never worked there have u
Lawyer 21 Aug 2012, 06:23
+1 -0
Really?
kianganz 21 Aug 2012, 05:52
+0 -0
Editorial clarification: The initial version of the story stated in an indirect quote that Ms Bhalla was the partner “nominally” in charge of the client, which was paraphrasing the statements made but was not a direct quote.
Legally Appalled 21 Aug 2012, 06:39
+6 -0
It is actually wonderful news. Was it not AMSS which was opposing entry of foreign firms into India. One can figure why. They promote incompetence and will not be able to compete against much professional foreign firms. Further, sacking of the associates sends out a good message. It shows to the world that at AMSS work is actually done by associates and senior associates and the partners rarely contribute in value addition. Therefore, it is much better to go to individual counsels or smaller firms where actual value addition happens from the partners. This act of AMSS to sack the associates is completely deplorable and in bad taste. Unfortunately the associates are over worked. They generally work 16-18 hours a day and on many matters. Thus, such oversight is likely. I am sure if labour laws were applicable for lawyers, then associates at AMSS would surely get justice. Anyways the entire system of an associate's work being reviewed is in place only to cover such goof ups. The partner should take the entire responsibility. The principle of collective and moral responsibility could not have been more applicable. If some thing good is done by the associates the partners are more than happy to take credit but no blame will lie at their end when the associate makes a mistake.

Kian it is very unfortunate that your article is more of a cover up for AMSS's faults. AMSS has gotten so much coverage for no rhyme or reason as such things happen many times, especially with big firms dealing with small clients due to less time being devoted by the partner incharge. It is unfortunate that the associates who are just beginning in the profession have to take the blame. Also remember that official email ids are controlled by AMSS and any apology could have easily written by the administrators. Therefore, so much for the official apology.
kianganz 21 Aug 2012, 07:10
+1 -0
Dear Readers

Thanks for your comments and apologies for the, at times, heavy-handed moderation.

In moderating comments we are often between a rock and a hard place, and are trying to steer a fair course that allows freedom of expression while avoiding personal attacks on individuals.

Please help us in this effort and bear this in mind.

Best wishes
Kian
Rubbish 21 Aug 2012, 07:47
+4 -0
Kian - this is rubbish. You have on numerous occasions allowed all sorts of personal comments and attacks against smaller firms and have never moderated extreme comments and have to the contrary encouraged a free for all. I am sure one can document those comments and put it up but that would embarrass you further. At least have the courage to stand up and say that when it comes to comment moderation, you are scared of a firm like AMSS. You moderate attacks against the Shroff's and AM Partners but not against lesser mortals. As a regular reader of LI, I can say this with conviction.
kianganz 21 Aug 2012, 07:59
+0 -0
I don't think it's ever that bad on LI. I remember a few exchanges, but they were also fairly balanced and in good humour. And in some cases the subjects of the post could probably see the intended humourous side too.

Our policy is clear, though it is never black and white: we try to allow all reasonable comments. If someone complains (and every comment has a report button), we will take this into account and moderate comments if appropriate. If someone comments on someone's appearance, or generally on their abilities as a lawyer, we may also moderate.

Partners and lawyers are also free to call us and complain, which many do exercise.

We then take their concerns into account and moderate accordingly, or not.

Maintaining a free comments space is not easy, and it also requires moderation, for better or worse sometimes.

Best wishes,
Kian
Note to the Editor 21 Aug 2012, 08:40
+1 -0
Kian,

I think you may want to ask commentators who get personal to do so by openly doing it. In short its easy shooting anonymus comments... if you have the gahunas state your name address (for service of a defamation suit) and telephone number. Lets see if they then are as scared as they allege that you are.
Legally Appalled 21 Aug 2012, 10:04
+1 -0
you really want to go there...hmmm...truth is a defense...i am sure no will want a trial on these aspects...am sure many of these facts can be corroborated...see the entire thing in a perspective...the weak being targeted and the strong being protected at the cost of the weak...am sure a defamation suit will not bother most of us...especially those of us who actually practice...may be we will get your defamation suit dismissed under Or 7 R 11...for incorrect affidavit...am sure the partner in charge will not even pay attention there...hahaha
Legally Appalled 21 Aug 2012, 10:31
+1 -0
and seriously defamation...thats your threat...and u r? so much for bravery...laughable...defamation wouldn't scare anyone...
Note to Amarchand Mangaldas 21 Aug 2012, 14:59
+2 -0
Dear Amarchand Mangaldas,

I think you may want to ask your Partners to behave responsibly. I think you may also want to ask your Partners to become nicer human beings. [...] please [...] invite foreign firms (to compete with you in your own backyard). Lets see if Indian lawyers are as scared as you allege that they are.
Annoyed 21 Aug 2012, 21:36
+0 -0
And it's easier to shoot the associates when the firm decides to wimp out.
Anony 21 Aug 2012, 10:44
+9 -0
Let us look at the bright side - the Court actually cottoned on to a faulty affidavit! :-)
Annoyed 22 Aug 2012, 16:29
+0 -0
Kian where is the other sides story? Are u not going to let us hear their side simply because those two don't have you on a retainer like amss
kianganz 22 Aug 2012, 20:43
+0 -0
Yes, we are working on publishing what we can but I can not go into any detailed discussion of sources for obvious reasons of confidentiality and protecting sources.

Best wishes,
Kian
Really? 22 Aug 2012, 16:40
+3 -0
"The Firm has always stood for the highest standards of professional practice and integrity and professionalism and has had an unblemished record. This is an unfortunate case where two individuals have not applied themselves, not been diligent and have by their carelessness jeopardized the interest of the client and the Firm."

How noble! I'm impressed. I'm touched. "The Firm" has set an outstanding example of "integrity" and "professionalism" by firing those who have "not applied themselves."

To those dudes and divas running AMSS - here is an earnest suggestion. Please, please, please continue upholding such high standards. Please keep firing all those who commit similar or graver mistakes, without waiting for such mistakes to be pointed out by a court or tribunal, and without waiting for it to be reported. Very soon, you'll have no one left to fire.
anon 22 Aug 2012, 18:32
+1 -0
Kian. I know the two associates and both of them assure me you attempted to reach them only after this story went to press. Seems pretty clear which way this site blows.
kianganz 22 Aug 2012, 20:59
+1 -1
Thanks for your feedback but that is simply not true. And I can also not be dragged into a discussion on our sources that could compromise confidentiality.
VB 23 Aug 2012, 06:52
+2 -0
Its a pity in India to see the recruitment procedures of these Major Law Firms. All they look at it is the college. The other day while I was in the Court, I went across this 24yr old young lady who by far according to everyone standing around was not-at-all-eligible, Zero Smartness, Zero Ability to handle a situation was facing the wrath of the Registrar. She belonged to the one of the TOP 2 firms in India. When a bystander asked her, her details, she very proudly said that she was working in India's top most firm and drawing 12+lakhs/Annum. The misery here was not how much she was drawing, but it was the look at the face of others who are far far more eligible for the job (earning not even 10% of that amount). Everyone and anyone out there practicing would affirm that there is serious issues with the way things go today in the Legal Industry.
I personally believe that a Legal Job has more to do than which college a person has passed out from.
Enlightenment for VB 23 Aug 2012, 09:44
+2 -1
Your expert opinion (which many others also seem to unfortunately share) is quite flawed, and I daresay that you haven’t been able to appreciate the reality. Your conclusion is based on faulty assertions because you have factored in the ‘salary’, which is irrelevant, while reaching the conclusion.

A newly minted lawyer has to be thrown into 'situations'. And God knows that it is not a cakewalk to handle such situations as a young lawyer, because most professionals get there by ‘practice’ and experience. If the young lawyer is paid 10% the amount the big firms pay and slogs for a counsel/ small firm, then it is okay to forgive their shortcomings (in fact, it is also okay to say that it is ‘normal’) because they are a rookie who has to learn on the job and the seniors should encourage them. But if they are paid 12 lakhs p.a. then they can be blamed because they earn so much! What you miss is that they also belong to the ‘junior’ category. The fact that they are paid more does not mean that they should be able to do better. They are paid more because they have developed certain skills and have received their legal training at a top law university. Big firms don’t expect much from their recruits from the elite lawschools in their first year. They expect some other skills, and I don’t wish to get into a lengthy explanation of that. Suffice to say that the big firms offer high salaries to fresh graduates after evaluating whether such graduates are up to the mark. That doesn’t mean that the “mark” is that a fresh graduate would be able to breeze through the Registry. We all know how the Registry works (and if you remember how it used to work in KGB’s time, you would know how much ground realities one must know to be able to navigate through the mysteries of the Registry).
Anon 25 Aug 2012, 10:56
+1 -0
while a lot of the recruitment comes from the colleges, it has also a lot to do with the interviews they give.

And you ever wondered how they survive? Law firms are terrible concrete jungles.. after a while those who have zero ability knowledge or smartness typically get weeded out.. or simply quit because they cant handle the stress or handle the fact that they cannot understand why others do better.

Suggest you ask that young lady in 3 years where she will be. If she is still at the top law firm, then your assessment was incorrect..
Response to VB 30 Aug 2012, 08:31
+1 -0
What you mean is that you 'came' across this lady... Now see this is why major law firms recruit from certain colleges and not others. The devil is in the details, sir.
Public Service Announcement... 30 Aug 2012, 14:20
+0 -1
and you, sir, are an asshole.

kian, let this comment go through unedited, you KNOW #52.3 is an asshole.