Cyril & Shardul register new Amarchand.com domains, as mediators give Shroffs green light to start new offices (+ some big moves)

Cyril vs Shardul: It's on
Cyril vs Shardul: It's on

It is understood that the mediators between brothers Cyril and Shardul Shroff, the Mumbai- and Delhi-region managing partners of Amarchand Mangaldas respectively, last week gave the green light for both to begin setting up offices on each others’ respective turfs.

Domains named

In the most visible sign yet of the all-but-certain 1 April split between the Amarchand Mumbai and Delhi regions, as first reported by Legally India in November 2014, the Mumbai and Delhi sides of the family have now registered internet domains of separate firms.

It is understood that under the current terms of the mediation, the amarchand.com domain, which had been used for emails by all Amarchand lawyers, would be surrendered by both sides of the firm.

According to publicly available information with the internet domain registrar http://whois.icann.org, Shardul S. Shroff registered domain names ShardulAmarchand.com and sssamarchand.com three days ago, on 25 February 2015.

The domain name CyrilAmarchand.com and five others were registered by Rishabh Shroff, the son of Amarchand Mumbai managing partner Cyril S Shroff, on 4 December 2014 The other domains registered by Rishabh were amarchandmumbai.com, amarchandindia.com, camarchand.com, amarchandcss.com, and amarchandcyril.com.

Legally India first reported last month that the Mumbai-headquartered firm was likely to be called Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas.

On Tuesday, 24 February, the Bombay high court formally extended the deadline to provide the mediators’ report to 31 March 2015, in line with last month’s reports of both firms splitting by 1 April.

Strategic concerns

It is understood that both brothers are pursuing different strategies to enter each others’ markets, with Cyril initially focusing on entering Delhi, and Shardul looking to open offices at least in Mumbai and Bangalore.

The firm’s Mumbai region includes Bangalore, Chennai and Hyderabad.

Delhi includes Kolkata, Gurgaon and Ahmedabad, however, it is understood that both sides of the family have already been operating semi-independently in Ahmedabad for at least several months.

Cyril: Organic strategy

According to authoritative sources, Cyril has communicated internally that he will most likely move to Delhi on a part-time basis in the initial months of setting up an office in Delhi, in order to crack the new market.

On Saturday, 31 January 2015, the Mumbai-region offices held an internal town hall-style meeting, in which the firm was looking for volunteers to move internally to kick-start the Delhi office.

It is understood that a number of partners and senior lawyers have so far volunteered, though no final decisions or announcements have been made to date.

In addition, the firm continues to be in the process of aggressively hiring lateral talent in Delhi.

Shardul: Casting a wide net

According to a multiple authoritative sources, legal recruiters instructed by Shardul and the Delhi office’s internal HR team has been reaching out to several Mumbai-based firms and partners, in a bid to recruit a starting line-up for its office in the city.

Legally India had first reported on 22 December 2014 already that Amarchand Delhi was in early-stage talks with lawyers in Bangalore and Mumbai to open offices there, which Shardul denied at the time.

Both brothers declined to comment when contacted.

Comments

SCAM 27 Feb 2015, 14:21
+44 -5
YAYYYY.
Finally, the First Comment.
I'd like to thank my office for providing me with enough vella time to be sitting and typing comments about the very office splitting up, that too on a Friday Night.
Next, I’d like to thank my mother for always believing in me and my strengths regarding typing.
And last, I’d like to thank LI for publishing this comment first, in case of a line-up of comments which have overtaken mine.
Thanks Guys :)
kianganz 27 Feb 2015, 14:29
+25 -5
Ok, done (there was one before yours, but it was rather mean and negative, so we'll leave your message of positivity and hope at the top!).

And congratulations for reaching your goals, you will clearly achieve much in life (from today)! :)
Goofball 27 Feb 2015, 15:49
+13 -4
I find your remark on my comment mean and negative. You should have censored your own comment but guess the policy doesn't apply to you. Good job!
kianganz 28 Feb 2015, 06:43
+11 -4
I'm truly sorry Goofball, but I appreciate your exposing my hypocrisy. :)
Goofball 1 Mar 2015, 10:04
+6 -1
Glad to be of service
Guest 27 Feb 2015, 14:30
+1 -0
Who are the big names moving - both internally and laterally?
Lateral Hire 27 Feb 2015, 15:21
+6 -6
AZB's breakway outfit, Abhijit Joshi's firm merging with SAM. Sealed ;-)
kianganz 27 Feb 2015, 15:37
+2 -2
As far as I know, nothing is sealed yet with anyone, though lots of talk has been ongoing across the market.

But, according to my sources, Joshi-SAM is not happening.
Interesting 27 Feb 2015, 16:30
+2 -0
Makes sense, why would Joshi go with SAM, even if he has money to throw! Would be another AZB kind of situation, you still have to look up...tsk tsk !

Among lots of talk Kian, is ALMT (MUM & BLR) on the block? Majmudar having sent feelers to SAM. Can you also confirm, office space taken by SAM in Fort/Nariman Point area?
Cyril 27 Feb 2015, 18:29
+12 -1
Insider says SAM is considering lexygen in bengaluru... very unlikely though..
kianganz 28 Feb 2015, 06:44
+0 -0
To be honest, most of that is more or less gossip at this point, though lots of talk has clearly been happening.

I think you might be right on the office side - have heard something similar...
Duhh 1 Mar 2015, 18:10
+1 -0
Majmudar?!?! Lol!!

Ho Gaya fir to...
dheka 27 Feb 2015, 18:27
+16 -0
Cyril is moving to Delhi. ..
Grok 27 Feb 2015, 14:41
+3 -6
Visting card guys will be joyous!
Gujju 27 Feb 2015, 19:38
+21 -2
Visiting cards? Is amss a kirana store to have visiting cards?
Mithai Shop 2 Mar 2015, 09:31
+9 -2
No, Amarchand is like a mithai shop - well it certainly has the name of a mithai shop.
Gulabjamum 15 Mar 2015, 22:57
+0 -0
Doesnt matter if it sounds like that! See what its worth!
BIG? 27 Feb 2015, 14:53
+7 -2
Big names will not shift turfs permanently on whims of MPs. It will be mostly family members and other obsequious people with less career options.
Delhi 27 Feb 2015, 15:26
+5 -6
"It is understood that a number of partners and senior lawyers have so far volunteered, though no final decisions or announcements have been made to date."

If the above statement is indeed true & I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be, its amazing to see the respect Cyril commands. His lawyers volunteering, way to go guys! You shall prevail !!!
anon 27 Feb 2015, 16:53
+3 -7
Is naval Chopra going to head the Mumbai office of SAM?
kianganz 28 Feb 2015, 06:48
+0 -1
According to my sources, I don't think so, no...
Anon 27 Feb 2015, 17:31
+3 -5
Is Rishabh Shroff going to head the delhi office of CAM?
daddy 27 Feb 2015, 20:32
+7 -0
Is it Rishab Shroff or Naval Chopra or Rishab chopra or vahura? Time shall tell.
kianganz 28 Feb 2015, 06:48
+2 -0
No, don't think that's the plan...
Clear and Precise 27 Feb 2015, 17:45
+3 -2
Great photoshop-merge of the two photographs of the Shroffs. Brilliant!
BHOnsle 27 Feb 2015, 18:04
+32 -0
Rishabh has registered the domain "amarchandindia.com".... sab Cyril ka mal jai kya?
BHO 27 Feb 2015, 18:15
+18 -0
Apprateem observation
RDA Legal 27 Feb 2015, 18:16
+36 -2
Requesting Hildul... Pls hire us...
cheapness 27 Feb 2015, 19:26
+14 -1
Meanwhile Kian...hope u have spoken to some Amss mumbai office lawyer lately! If not thn ask them about the legal era awards 2015 anf the dozen votes that were cast by the management without taking lawyers consent.
Ex-KCo 27 Feb 2015, 21:23
+0 -2
All firms do it so what's the big deal ! Lawyers should focus on client work, billing etc & not waste their time for admin activities. How do you think Law Firm of the Year Award was won last year by my ex ;-) Anyways, Era is a racket, sponsor or pay and you will win for sure ...look at the winners over the past years across categories and there is your answer !

Btw I hear [...] with team moving to SAM? Negotiations in final stage ...is it true?
kianganz 28 Feb 2015, 07:00
+4 -1
Lot of rumours going on, also about that person. Again, don't think it's true any more than the others necessarily at this stage.

If all the people and firms who are rumoured to be talking to Shardul would actually join Amarchand Delhi, you'd end up with a 100 lawyer office.

But the reality is, you'd also end up with an unmanageable mess of people who are unlikely to play well together or have any firm culture to speak of...

My guess would be that Shardul is speaking to a lot of people partly because headhunters and HR have a really wide mandate to identify talent. And the more people you speak to, the more it becomes a buyers' market with Shardul being able to take his pick of his dream team, or consider other options.

Going heavily inorganic in opening a new office is fast, but it's also very risky. Unless this is all subterfuge and Shardul will move the entire Kolkata office to Mumbai (just for the record, before the rumourmill starts going into overdrive, that Kolkata part is a joke based on 100% completely unfounded speculation).
curious 28 Feb 2015, 09:23
+0 -0
Any hints to which partner you are referring to?
kianganz 28 Feb 2015, 09:29
+0 -1
Wouldn't be fair to mention or speculate as to any discussions with individuals within firms, since that could ruin their existing prospects if they didn't end up joining...
Hilduls PA 28 Feb 2015, 13:02
+0 -0
[quote name="Ex-KCo"]All firms do it so what's the big deal ! Lawyers should focus on client work, billing etc & not waste their time for admin activities. How do you think Law Firm of the Year Award was won last year by my ex ;-) Anyways, Era is a racket, sponsor or pay and you will win for sure ...look at the winners over the past years across categories and there is your answer !

Btw I hear [...] with team moving to SAM? Negotiations in final stage ...is it true?[/quote]

Interesting that all other moves and shifts have been put up by LI..surprising that Kian specifically censored this one.. You must be spot on!!
kianganz 28 Feb 2015, 13:36
+3 -0
We're not that indiscriminate in our censorship! :)

You'll note that the only names published in the comments are either law firms, or independent individuals (e.g., start-ups). The [...] above was an individual partner in a firm, which wouldn't be fair to publish.

Mentioning entire law firms is entirely different, since no one will fire them or look down upon them for talking to someone...
Curious 28 Feb 2015, 17:26
+2 -0
Kian this is the comments section in any case. How does it matter who we conjecture about?
Objection 3 Mar 2015, 07:13
+2 -0
Why do you wish to name people and put them in jeopardy?
Goofball 1 Mar 2015, 10:21
+1 -1
I don't know one person whose vote was cast without their consent but many who chose to follow directions asking them to vote or gave consent for voting. Let's not be naive and remember that AMSS lawyers now have to move extra muscles to build a name for their respective offices.

If your vote was wrongly cast, and it disturbs you enough to complain to third parties, you should take it up with management/ AP/ legal era/ someone.
Cheapness 1 Mar 2015, 14:21
+3 -0
You clearly seem to be someone from the management or complete outsider. Even after 3 emails when certain associates did not vote and rightly so, they got emails from legal era, thanking them for voting. That too dozens of emails.
Goofball 1 Mar 2015, 15:43
+1 -2
Sigh. The simplest conclusions are not *always* right.

Let me put this another way. Assuming what you are saying is correct, if one feels very strongly, one has to raise it at the right forum - get one's vote cancelled or at least try. I know people who sulked for hours and then voted and duly sent screenshots.

Did all of this make us feel dirty? Mostly, yes - but was it because this was asked of us or because we couldn't/ wouldn't protest?
Adani 28 Feb 2015, 03:41
+2 -0
Will both the Shroff brothers continue to oppose liberalisation now?
GujjuPanju 28 Feb 2015, 03:58
+3 -0
Cyril talking to merge with Luthra says insider. R. Luthra to retire. Mega merger in the works? Kian - chase this one!
kianganz 28 Feb 2015, 07:01
+12 -1
Yeahhhh... No, I'm pretty sure that won't be happening... Like ever. :)
GujjuPanju 1 Mar 2015, 13:37
+0 -1
Kian, this is on..... Watch this space.... Don't be caught napping.... :-)
Guest 2 Mar 2015, 06:11
+1 -0
Agree with Kian - Luthra merger is completely unlikely. But the Shroffs are talking to some of the Luthra partners to hire them.
kianganz 28 Feb 2015, 07:02
+11 -0
Though talking of mega-merger - ABCZ would be a great commercial and strategic fit... (and would probably also attract the attention of the CCI :)
Rumour has it 28 Feb 2015, 17:08
+2 -0
I've heard that one is apparently on the table. Should be an interesting few months to see what happens.
Ananin 28 Feb 2015, 07:56
+1 -0
Guyz - get smart. Any merger of law firms needs to keep in mind conflict scenario. This is a great opportunity for young lawyers to step out. Foreign firms also are around the corner. All this is redrawing the field. A senior lawyer told me that the AMSS split - has redrawn the legal market and all senior partners - Zia, Haigreve, Berjis, Rajiv Luthra, rejoice at the split has turned into woes that it puts their firms at risk through client pressure on reducing invoices and aggressive employee poaching that will take lawyer costs very high - watch out, there are few more entrants coming up.
Outsider 28 Feb 2015, 08:07
+0 -4
Perhaps a premature question, but does anyone have a simpler take on which chip would be better amongst the two SAM or CAM? Pros and cons for both might be a helpful answer, if anyone is thinking about replying.
Outsider 28 Feb 2015, 16:22
+4 -0
Copycat, eh? But your question is a fair one for the ones who are part of the legal community, but unaware of the pros and cons of the two brothers (read: doesn't read LI at all). So, you shall pass.
Anon 28 Feb 2015, 08:54
+0 -1
Can you elaborate on the possibility of shardul joining hands with wadia (mumbai operation).
Poachy 28 Feb 2015, 09:29
+3 -0
It isn't clear whether - (1) There would be a non-poaching pact between the firms - SAM and CAM with regards lawyers and clients? (2) What would be the time-frame of such a pact? (3) Will both firms continue the existing pact of Amarchand with AZB? The nation needs to know! (And I'm bored right now in my Saturdays working office :) )
kianganz 28 Feb 2015, 09:34
+0 -0
No client non-poach, as far as I can tell. Lawyer non-poach, don't know - maybe a cooling off period to avoid an instant bloodbath?

I think there was talk about abandoning the Amarchand-AZB non-poach relatively recently before the break-up...
anon 28 Feb 2015, 13:21
+0 -0
IMHO both CAM and SAM will initially start offices by moving people from their existing set-up and then scale up with lateral hires, though there may be few rainmaker type moves. Agree with Kian that starting an office staffed by majority laterals isn't easy or managanle.
Vakil babu 28 Feb 2015, 15:17
+0 -0
The split is definitely going to rewrite this history of Indian legal market....I am sure there will be massive poaching now from every available law firm.....big and small law firms will have to re-think on retaining talent...and if the foreign law firms do enter the Indian market in future thats going to be the icing on cake for lawyers
@ poachy 28 Feb 2015, 15:33
+3 -0
Interesting comments, Kian. Could u elaborate on the terms of this non-poach agreement between Amarchand and AZB?
Lawl 28 Feb 2015, 16:39
+0 -0
Check dates of registration for some fun :)
Farm house i 1 Mar 2015, 02:51
+0 -1
There is no non poach between cam and Sam . Only self restraint to avoid disruption. Hildul has said so to many people . Sensible for now but not a restriction. . People will move between firms in future once dust settles. And laterals are done by both firms.
Laterlism 1 Mar 2015, 03:00
+1 -5
Hildul has been unable to clinch any deal. Rumour is that it's back to almt . Also [...] .

The reputation all impact of his law suit has meant that he has to throw three times the money to get average folks to consider him. And even then ...........

The Sam headhunter team is struggling. Trying to sell Sam in Mumbai to Mumbai professionals is hugely challenging . It's not always about money. Even if there is lots of it. .

Kian what's your take on this ? Are you hearing same thing ?
Guest 1 Mar 2015, 10:44
+6 -4
Heard that two senior mumbai corporate lawyers have already signed on with SAM and will move with teams. That's a 20 person office right there. None of these are from ALMT, and the identity of at least one would surprise CAM.

Also, in Delhi, i hear that Vahura has gone all out in its bid to poach lawyers from existing firms. Given Luthra's current state, it wouldn't require a merger between the principals, a slump sale of "assets" looks more on the cards.
anon 1 Mar 2015, 05:22
+0 -0
While i have heard of various people being approached by headhunters on behalf of SAM and CAM, has there been any actual recruitment by either?
Francis J Underwood 1 Mar 2015, 11:49
+2 -0
Kian, whatsup with this hovering full page ad? It took me several tries to post this comment. I do not have the time for this, I am battling Dunbar and Petrov, and now a hovering full page ad on LI when all I want to do is just read the post in peace!
kianganz 1 Mar 2015, 12:05
+1 -0
Ok, will get this fixed ASAP - clearly something wrong with our 'hovering ad settings'. Sorry for the inconvenience...
Useless Law Student 1 Mar 2015, 20:52
+3 -1
Does this mean more recruitments and PPOs? #hopeful
Random Bystander 2 Mar 2015, 08:57
+1 -3
Yes, boy. But only at a lateral level :P
Guest 1 Mar 2015, 22:07
+0 -0
This is a great chance for non-rainmaker partners at other firms to make some money by joining the two split firms. I am surprised at how the bigwigs in both firms outside the Shroff family have not left for any other firms.
Simple 2 Mar 2015, 16:04
+3 -0
“Force works on servile natures, not the free.”
Ben Jonson quotes (English Dramatist and Poet, 1572-1637)
stuss 3 Mar 2015, 09:18
+0 -0
kian any updates
kianganz 3 Mar 2015, 09:20
+0 -0
Nope, not yet :)
stuss 3 Mar 2015, 09:28
+0 -0
i hear there is a meeting in bombay
kianganz 3 Mar 2015, 09:29
+2 -0
Ooh... What's happening at the meeting? :)
Cat 3 Mar 2015, 10:17
+0 -0
Where is CAM opening his office in Delhi? Any information on that? Also what areas are they looking at?
Cat 3 Mar 2015, 10:19
+0 -0
Where is CAM opening his office in Delhi? What practice areas? Any information on that?
OoZoo 3 Mar 2015, 17:12
+1 -2
does JSA (gurgoaon or mumbai office) recruit people who haven't interned in day zero?

#toocoolforamss

honest doubt, though :(
CAMcorder 4 Mar 2015, 06:37
+3 -1
Yo Bozo
Does this, by any chance, look like a web page to address your recruitment queries on? Why not stick the topic here man.
Cheers
OoZoo 4 Mar 2015, 17:06
+1 -0
That is true, dear CAMcorder.

but no harm in asking, is there? mostly because this is the most active thread right now and the probability of this query getting resolved is more, I thought. Clearly not the case. K.
Outsider 5 Mar 2015, 06:01
+1 -1
JSA has been known to have done so in the past from law schools.
Mr. X 7 Mar 2015, 14:26
+2 -0
Agrawal Law Associates?
SignMeUp 4 Mar 2015, 12:50
+2 -1
Who are these HR people? How can I give my CV?
Gallery Observer 8 Mar 2015, 15:40
+0 -0
CAM is recruiting through Bithika.
Gallery Observer 8 Mar 2015, 15:41
+0 -0
And SAM could be requesting CAM for hel in recruiting! :-)
does not matter 6 Mar 2015, 09:10
+2 -1
Any update Kian? Heard mumbai office promotions being announced on march 21. Any news?
Wild Child No.1 9 Mar 2015, 15:20
+0 -0
Really? Yay! Yay!

If this is wrong, I will hunt you down and take your bonus.
Want to know 7 Mar 2015, 05:22
+1 -0
Whats going on? Any news? Kian prod your sources dude.
Mr. X 7 Mar 2015, 14:24
+2 -0
Heard one of them is branching into new unchartered territories down south?
Nirbhaya 7 Mar 2015, 18:02
+3 -1
Heard Jatin Anega will be managing the south . Has been visiting Bangalore and negotiating with almt and others

Hildul is becoming chairman. His wife the m p. of delhi .

Strong chance of Wadia Gandhi folding into Sam . Drowning firm clutching at Sam straw.

Rahul. Dwarkadas left because he does not want to be part of it .

This is straight from the farm house . Hildul has called a partner meeting on 16 th to announce all this .

Kian check this out .
Shaman 7 Mar 2015, 18:05
+2 -0
Kian so when do the two new firms start

Has hildul finalised his premises . Heard he was looking at fort . Forbes building .

How to apply to hildul ? I want a serious raise in my salary. And only Sam is paying big amounts .

Kian please guide
34 and 35 8 Mar 2015, 08:15
+0 -1
Same IP address, Kian.
#cams
Orwell 11 Mar 2015, 16:36
+1 -0
Kian can you check out on hildul meeting on 16 th

Rumour has it that cam did a major partner meeting . You know what happened ?

Will there be two new firms on April 1 ?
Freaky 12 Mar 2015, 05:11
+0 -0
Plz tell me the AMSS WG thing aint happening!
Where 12 Mar 2015, 08:01
+2 -0
Where is Cyril opening his office? Any news on that?
chipkali 12 Mar 2015, 14:17
+2 -0
SakeT. He has already hired over 30...Wonder if Kian knows?
Anon 12 Mar 2015, 17:53
+1 -0
What's the update Kian? Anything on this mystery meeting on 16 th