BCI bans term-time student internships to nip empty classroom menace (*cough* GLC *cough* DU)

BCI: Filling classrooms (click for full-size version)
BCI: Filling classrooms (click for full-size version)
“)The Bar Council of India (BCI) has directed law schools to forbid their students from undertaking internships outside of their university vacations.

In an 11 September letter sent to the registrars and heads of all law schools, and to the secretaries of all state bar councils, the BCI wrote:

“It is noticed that some of the Universities/Colleges are sending their students for internship during academic session. The students can only take internship during the vacation (academic session is not on). The Universities/Colleges are directed that henceforth they should send their students for internship to the Law Firms, Senior Advocates only when there is a vacation of Universities/Colleges.”

BCI secretary Jogi Ram Sharma, who had signed the letter, commented: “As per ‘university’ rules [students] are supposed to go on internships. But when the academic session is on, if few go for internship, while the rest are having classes, how will the shortage [of students in a lecture] be accounted [for]? So all students should go for internships together [during the vacations] and not turn by turn.”

Sharma said that there would be no exception to this new direction, whether students arranged internships on their own or the internships were college-arranged, and whether the student were admitted in a national law university or elsewhere.

When asked about application to students of the 3-year LLB in colleges such as Delhi University or Government Law College, where many students intern all year round, he said: “In the Bombay University September and October is the vacation [period]. [The colleges] should say that [they] will organise internships for all students during this time and not allow them to go during classes.”

Sharma said that there would be no exception to this rule even for students who meet the university attendance requirements despite interning during the semester. “If out of 60 in a class, 20 people are interning how will the class be filled? We cannot regulate this way.”

If students were allowed to intern if they fulfilled attendance percentages, everybody would bring in a certificate, said Sharma, which the BCI was not open to.

Around this time last year the Supreme Court banned interns from entering its premises on Mondays and Fridays, on the request of practicing lawyers, while this year the Supreme Court Bar Association (SCBA) banned interns from its main canteen during 12:30 to 2:30 – the lunching hours of practicing lawyers.

Hat tip to Mohit Singh for letting us know about the BCI letter on Twitter.

Comments

National 16 Sept 2014, 10:34
+21 -11
GLC.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
@ National 16 Sept 2014, 13:19
+12 -11
[b]I don't see how any of the NLUs are not affected. We send final year students for internships throughout their final year/semester. At best, this helps students who are asked to re-intern during their final year - as a pre-requisite to the PPO interview - to justify their inability to intern during term.[/b]


@ Prachi: Its *cough cough* for everyone ;)
National 16 Sept 2014, 17:11
+13 -5
Which third-grade nationals are you referring to?
LOL 16 Sept 2014, 18:01
+6 -5
Was about to ask @Nation the very same question.
@National 17 Sept 2014, 04:50
+7 -7
I graduated a couple of years ago, but in my time all of the first-grade ones were indulging in the practice. To clarify, it is not a standard practice, but a couple of students of every batch intern during term. Since we are on "grades", Nagarbhavi is included.

[b]Don't comment just for the sake of commenting please.[/b]
@National! 21 Sept 2014, 05:59
+2 -0
NLSIU students do not take part in internships during their final trimesters. It isn't possible as attendance requirements are strict and we actually are required to be in class for 75% of the classes or else risk failure. @National, you don't seem to know what you are talking about.

It is best you talk about your own college and refrain from talking about other colleges you haven't been to.
Guest 21 Sept 2014, 13:14
+0 -0
[quote name="@National!"]NLSIU students do not take part in internships during their final trimesters. It isn't possible as attendance requirements are strict and we actually are required to be in class for 75% of the classes or else risk failure. @National, you don't seem to know what you are talking about.

It is best you talk about your own college and refrain from talking about other colleges you haven't been to.[/quote]

No true, wrong information. Students from NLSIU do internships, miss classes and do a lot of hanky panky to please their law firm would be masters. Even students of other nationals do it. Unhealthy practice and glad that BCI has done something about it.
@National! 23 Sept 2014, 05:40
+0 -0
They can't miss classes. Unlike in other colleges, missing classes results in a fail grade as attendance is actually taken. This seems like an alien concept to you, losing a year due to attendance, that makes it clear you haven't set foot in NLSIU.

Secondly trying to do internships behind the back of recruitment committee is supremely risky. Internships within the major firms are facilitated through RCC and if it is found out that they are doing 'hanky panky' they risk being kicked out of RCC and reducing your chances of getting a job at the end of your college career.

You are a troll. You are saying things which are untrue and defamatory. And judging from 'No true, wrong information' I doubt you are from any institution of actual credence.
GLC Final Year Student 16 Sept 2014, 10:37
+6 -1
Quite frankly, I don't see this getting implemented by colleges. At the most it will cause some commotion for a couple of months. But good job, BCI. At least there is something to show for on record now. *cough cough*
Blah 16 Sept 2014, 11:46
+1 -0
Hello Kejriwal!
Blah 16 Sept 2014, 10:38
+7 -0
Who is superior? BCI or Bombay Incorporated Law Society?
kianganz 16 Sept 2014, 11:04
+12 -3
Indeed, this could be an interesting conflict brewing - is it even technically possible to become a solicitor without articling all year round while a student?
GLC Final Year Student 16 Sept 2014, 11:10
+0 -2
Yes, there are many lawyers(including national law school grads) who begin their articleships only after graduating. Also, let us not forget about dummy articleships
kianganz 16 Sept 2014, 11:11
+2 -0
Ah, ok, my bad. Still, a large number seem to build a relationship with their solicitor guru by interning full-time with a firm for a few years before taking up articles, no?
Duhh 16 Sept 2014, 12:30
+0 -0
Yes of course. Article after completing your law degree.
Duhh? 16 Sept 2014, 14:32
+4 -1
I'm sorry but that's just not feasible. You're eligible to sign your articles with a solicitor post your 3rd year of law (once you're a graduate, for a 5 years course student in GLC) so by the time you graduate you get paid a decent stipend. The first two years of articles you get paid peanuts (5k or 10k max, sometimes even lesser - I'm pointing at you Wadia Ghandy). To expect a graduate to work in a law firm especially for those who dont otherwise have accommodation in Bombay for that kind of money is disgusting. So no, sorry but doing your articles after graduating law is not a solution. This circular absolutely kills any appeal that GLC had. Sad day for us all.
Not really 18 Sept 2014, 08:19
+0 -0
Law firms (WG included) make exceptions - law graduates have been known to sign articles while working as and getting paid as regular associates. It all depends on who the person signing articles is and the firm. Indeed, at Wadia itself, there was a huge controversy back in the day because one then-associate, now-partner was paid regular associate salary even though he signed articles post his firang LLB while another GLC law grad was asked to take a pay cut in lieu of "all the learning" he would receive as an articled clerk.
Duhh 19 Sept 2014, 02:05
+0 -0
Guys, you go for articleship because you don't attend classes. Let GLC students show a turnout and lets see the college still not provide faculty..one of the argument that GLC takes is that whats the point of classes when the students dont turn up themselves..

classroom teaching has its benefits which you guys just dont want to understand..For the record, I dont say you shouldn't be allowed to do internships! I agree that is GLC's (and now MNLU, Mumbai's) greatest advantage of being in Mumbai. However, I think GLC neglects classes way too much.

Ever wonder why NLS / NLU / NUJs / NLIU / NALSAR grads dont need articleship, or why firms dont insist on them? I'm aware of grads from these colleges that wanted to sign articles post graduating, but their partners simply refused saying "you don't need it".
Where? 16 Sept 2014, 14:36
+3 -0
Most of the articles in law firms today are still students waiting to pass out of law school? Please do explain where you have come across "many" who sign articles AFTER graduation? Complete rubbish. A dummy articles allows you to give the exam, but it teaches you nothing. The entire point of articles is the three year training you get in different fields of the law which allows you to get enough practical experience to write the exam decently. A dummy articles does nothing for you.
Delhi lawyer 16 Sept 2014, 17:01
+2 -0
Which NLU student has been asked to do an articleship? None of them do articleships and this has always been the position. They just join the firms after graduation as associates on full fresher pay.
lawyer 16 Sept 2014, 11:14
+2 -0
Its not about any of them being superior. BILS has more pull in bombay
Blah 16 Sept 2014, 12:31
+5 -1
Not more. Its "pull" is only in Bombay.
Scooty 16 Sept 2014, 10:50
+5 -1
The BCI must first get the spelling of 'Principal' in the circular correct.
McWag 16 Sept 2014, 11:40
+1 -1
I think "Principles" was intended. Seeking to move the core of law institutions it seems.
doubt ? 16 Sept 2014, 10:55
+1 -1
what would happen to GLC now..?
Nadan 16 Sept 2014, 11:51
+22 -0
Nothing. What is BCI's locus to stop students from doing any thing beyond their college hours...whether one chills out on MD or go to coffe shop or work in a firm is none of BCI's business. A 19/20 year old chooses to work for 8-9 hours in a pint sized firm (not every one finds full time internship at top law firm)because the college does not have much to offer. Bad/No professor...Bad/Negligent infrastructure. One day if all the students of GLC decide to come to college then College may not be able to find place to sit all of them.
Guest 16 Sept 2014, 11:11
+2 -0
If quoted correctly, this article says "[i]The Universities/Colleges are directed that henceforth they should send their students for internship to the Law Firms, Senior Advocates only[/i]"

There are a ton of corporates/ NGOs/ CA Firms to intern at.
Blah 16 Sept 2014, 11:47
+4 -0
...which are not regulated by BCI. Duh?
Nadan 16 Sept 2014, 11:35
+16 -2
Kian you must take care of yourself, brandy will do wonders for your dry cough.
Lawyer 16 Sept 2014, 20:34
+5 -1
But Prachi was the one coughing dude. You should see an eye-doctor.
Nadan 17 Sept 2014, 04:35
+0 -0
Prachi who?? Kian is supposedly the editor of this legal news portal and anything and everything published on this medium is Editor's responsibility including his vicious bout of coughing.
Arre Nadan 17 Sept 2014, 12:15
+1 -0
Can't you see the author's name at the top-left?
Nadan 18 Sept 2014, 07:39
+0 -0
Na..I can only Read Kian...have you got problem with that.
kianganz 17 Sept 2014, 13:12
+8 -0
For the record, both Prachi and I had a cough over this story... :)
G Real Estate 16 Sept 2014, 11:57
+0 -1
Should or may?? Mandatory to send??
Personally, practical knowledge of our profession is more important that classrooms though we cannot undermine the value of classrooms too..So overall, a nice decision, if implemented.
Hardworking Intern 16 Sept 2014, 12:02
+1 -0
But isn't it true that practical training is also important for one's professional growth? And what about DU, where the holidays coincide with court holidays? How can such students gain from practical experience without actually attending the courts? And if a student is interning after college hours, I don't see a problem with it.
WADDA LAWYER 16 Sept 2014, 13:07
+2 -0
Now wouldnt it be nice to have another circular restraining Law Firms/ Senior Advocates to refuse internships to students. MUST NOT DENY INTERNSHIP TO UNDER-GRADS. MUST PAY MINIMUM STIPEND OF RS.10,000 yada yada yada....
Duhh 19 Sept 2014, 01:59
+0 -0
Yeah right. Free lunches? Limo drop and pick-up? How about weekly parties and free booze also...
Delhi lawyer 16 Sept 2014, 13:28
+10 -0
I am amazed how there are no comments on the legal absurdity in the notice. The BCI’s attendance rules require 66.66% attendance, so BCI has no leg to stand on if asked to justify the legal validity of the circular. A restriction on freedom of trade/profession must have some reasonable nexus with the objective. BCI’s objective seems to be filling up classes throughout term, which is ridiculous. BCI’s concern of adequate class attendance is already covered by the attendance rule. Further, the requirement to undertake internships only during vacations is absurd in itself, because courts are closed during vacations.

If a writ is not filed now, we may see another DU-FYUP like situation a couple of years down the line, with the BCI attempting de-recognise universities/degrees.
Duhh 19 Sept 2014, 02:00
+0 -1
Freedom of trade and profession - what are you trading or professing as a student??!!
Blah 19 Sept 2014, 09:40
+0 -0
66.66% ?
It is 66.67% naa? Hehe
Answer 16 Sept 2014, 14:07
+10 -1
GLC timings are 7-10am. Law firms start at 10am. Technically, there is no issue.
DBS 16 Sept 2014, 16:51
+4 -0
Are lectures conducted at GLC?? Do they have any lecturers at present?? Is attendance taken everyday?? God knows!!
Anon 17 Sept 2014, 06:18
+8 -1
Answer to all your questions is NO. Lectures are conducted at the whims and fancies of the "professors" (I use this term in its broadest possible sense). Most lecturers are beyond horrible, lecherous (I am pointing at you, Mokal and gang) and have no clue of what they are attempting to teach. I am obviously excluding guest lecturers like Pithawala and Daswani from this purview. Usually, there would be a lecture at 7 am followed by a lecture at 9.30 am purely because the lecturers for the intervening classes are missing. This works out well for the students who are frankly better off working with a lawyer / law firm - that's the ONLY way any GLC student learns. Have you seen the GLC website lately? only 8 full time teachers (no principal mentioned - doubt there is one) and 27 part time teachers! How is this place still allowed to function??

I agree with other comments on this thread that if all GLC students were to turn up one fine day, the college would have a great time finding even standing space for everyone. The quality of teachers and level of infrastructure at GLC is incredibly pathetic. Naturally, the place does not attract top level students - those who go their out of choice are those who plan to work throughout all or most of their academic year. The place also does not attract top level firms for internships - students find their own interships. Don't be fooled by the "placement committee" - they get firms to come to campus only on paper but in reality most do not offer anything to the students. If anyone had any sense, they would wind up that sorry mess of an educational institution and put everyone out of their misery.
Anon 17 Sept 2014, 09:00
+2 -0
Forgot to add a couple of more qualities of some professors - drunk in the morning and highly misogynist. Back when Pramila Rao was the principal of GLC, the then [...] (whose name now slips my mind) used to come to college with blood shot eyes and reeking of alcohol. If urban legend was to be believed, he was also facing molestation charges by more than one female student. I believe this person acted as the principal (but was not the "appointed" principal) for some time after Rao retired. Then there was the professor who, during a lecture, made a very matter-of-fact statement that women who travel in general compartments of local trains are asking to be molested and have no right to complain when they are. Again, I'm blanking on this guy's name but I was a horrified witness to this.

Have also heard that Rao turned down MU's offer to make GLC autonomous (which would have made it possible for the institution to rid itself of many government imposed evils such has lack of funds and teachers) because she did not want to lose her pension.

Good times.
Lawyer 16 Sept 2014, 20:35
+1 -0
And how many attend those 7-10 classes? SO GLC students get up at 5.30 and attend classes?
Nadan 17 Sept 2014, 04:28
+0 -0
Very few .. but it is not because of internship that classes start at 7..it is because of the temporary professors who have to rush to court by 10 that the classes in GLC has been traditionally scheduled for 7 - 10/11.
Read 16 Sept 2014, 23:32
+0 -1
Read the circular carefully please. It says nothing about "college hours". It specifically forbids internships during a semester. So regardless of whether its during the hours of 7 to 10 or after, as long lectures are being taken and college is open for attendance, the prohibition will apply. Are you a lawyer?
Guest 16 Sept 2014, 16:09
+1 -0
does this apply to after college internships? after college hours?
BCIshit 16 Sept 2014, 17:03
+4 -0
This poorly drafted piece of crap makes sense only to lawyers of mars! College don't send for internships - what does that even mean? What if a law student pursues an internship on own? And what objective is going to be served by this regulation? Dear BCI, please, the burden is on you to prove that you are sane, because facts seems to establish otherwise.
Lawctopus! 16 Sept 2014, 17:17
+2 -9
Lawctopus has a far more punchy piece on this: http://www.lawctopus.com/bcis-internship-notice-why-you-should-totally-ignore-it
Ha Ha 17 Sept 2014, 05:11
+3 -0
For me the best line was "We cannot regulate this way."...haha...off course, like all other things, you cannot regulate this also well. :-)
Commentator 17 Sept 2014, 06:14
+1 -0
Gale mein kharash? Get a cough syrup will you, couple of bottles will do
final year student 17 Sept 2014, 09:44
+0 -0
This circular is a whole lot of crap.
Also, why should a student waste his entire day,like where his college hours end by 10-11 AM- all the months (except of course, the "vacation period" of the colleges) doing nothing, or whiling away his time at the college campus, or whatever? Isn't it logically better to intern & get some experience?!
In any case, our curriculums are such that they provide not even 10% practical knowledge to the students- & internships are the only way to gain some.
Restricting that as well will only lead to more poorer condition of the legal-education system.
Besides, what a student does AFTER his college hours, is NOT at all BCI's business.
They should better concentrate on planning & sticking to the schedules of Bar Exams & setting up higher standards for the same- instead of wasting their (& our) time over such nonsense activities.
the bci is an ass 17 Sept 2014, 09:52
+0 -0
So how does one sign articles?
Lawyer 17 Sept 2014, 21:48
+1 -0
No more articles. Ban. Khallas. Internship karo vacation mein.
Free speech 17 Sept 2014, 10:52
+2 -0
Why was my comment on Lawctopus not published Kian? I smell a rat, btw.
Me too 17 Sept 2014, 12:17
+2 -0
My comment on the editor of Lawctopus was not published. Kian, not done! Jaroor kuch gadbad hai.
kianganz 17 Sept 2014, 13:17
+0 -0
We generally moderate comments along the lines of filtering out things that aren't nice to named individuals (institutions and senior lawyers in the public eye, to some extent, we have a slightly less strict policy on ;).
Guest 18 Sept 2014, 04:34
+0 -0
or usually, ones that are simply just critical of Kian. Ref: my 'moderated' comment on your appalling comments to the GV obituary
kianganz 18 Sept 2014, 09:34
+0 -0
Usually quite happy to take criticism, but in your specific case, you had your say, I had mine, but after that point, IMHO, continuing the discussion under an obituary ad ininitum would have been more disrespectful and unbefitting than someone linking to the Caravan's profile of GV in a comment ever was.

Since you're clearly still upset about it, happy to talk it through with you some time, even here, however off-topic it is.
Guest 18 Sept 2014, 13:08
+0 -1
how interesting. that was kind of the whole point of my comment to YOU. That your (lack of) moderation was being extremely disrespectful. So i will say it again.. it was a new low, even for you. I'm more than happy to talk, IF you are at all amenable to understanding my serious (and continual) concerns with the perils of this ridiculous need LI has to allow anonymous caustic comments.
Duhh 19 Sept 2014, 02:08
+0 -0
Guest, got a problem, take it up with Kian off this forum. you're just sounding like a cry baby right now
Blah 19 Sept 2014, 09:43
+0 -0
Bhai, IT Act ka section 67 padh le. LI is an intermediary. Kalia will sue Kian.
Free speech 18 Sept 2014, 06:33
+0 -0
[quote name="kianganz"]We generally moderate comments along the lines of filtering out things that aren't nice to named individuals (institutions and senior lawyers in the public eye, to some extent, we have a slightly less strict policy on ;).[/quote]

Kian, I did not name any individual. Stop grandstanding in public. Let us not reduce LI to such a low level by filtering comments that amount to reasonable free speech. Ok?
Concerned 17 Sept 2014, 13:00
+0 -0
Oh so NOW LI scoffs and coughs and writes about GLC. Wowwwmaan!
Cough 18 Sept 2014, 09:06
+0 -0
Cough *no one cares*
SPOK 18 Sept 2014, 17:10
+3 -0
I just noticed that the image of the letter from the BCI Secretary contains the State Emblem of India (the Sarnath capital). I see that the BCI is a statutory authority, but the use of the state emblem of India is restricted by a 2005 Act, and notifications thereunder, to a very limited list of authorities and individuals. Unless I have overlooked something, the list does not include the BCI. I wonder, therefore, how the BCI can use the symbol! The 2005 Act and the list (Schedule 1) can be found here: http://policewb.gov.in/wbp/misc/act/emblem.pdf

Once again, it seems that the authority for regulating the legal profession in India does not give a $hit about following the law!
Outsider 18 Sept 2014, 18:34
+0 -0
Good spot! Spok vaporizes rock! :D
Blah 19 Sept 2014, 09:44
+0 -0
And why do they have a telegram address. Woh toh band ho gaya.