The full National Institutional Ranking Framework are out and are substantially unchanged from last year - with NLSIU Bangalore, NLU Delhi and Nalsar Hyderabad taking the top three spots; howveer, NLU Jodhpur has overtaken NUJS Kolkata, and GNLU Gandhinagar has jumped ahead of SLS Pune and Jamia Milia Islamia, in this government-sponsored and -approved ranking that saw a total of 97 law colleges participating (see full list and ranking table below).
Movers and shakers
Amongst the top ranks, only NLSIU Bangalore, IIT Kharagpur, NLU Jodhpur, GNLU Gandhinagar and RMLNLU Lucknow managed to improve their total scores slightly as against last year (see below).
NLIU Bhopal saw one of the steepest declines, however, losing nearly 4 points in a year.
RMLNLU, while improving its score by just over 1 point, climbed from 14 to 11th.
New in the rankings this year - which extended to 20 rather than just 15 as last year - were Aligarh Muslim University, NLU Cuttack, Odisha Panjab University Chandigarh, NLUJA Assam and Christ University, which made its debut at 20th in the rankings.
Last year’s 15th-ranked, BR Ambedkar College of Law, dropped out of this year’s top 20.
How did they move and shake?
For a full look at the methodology and number-crunching involved, please see a PDF of the law category.
And diving into the maths may be required, since a cursory look at the numbers scored in each category can often raise more questions than it answers.
Graduation outcomes
Looking at the data and year-on-year changes a little more closely, it appears that most law schools improved on their “graduation outcome” (GO) metric.
Nine law schools improved their self-reported “graduation outcome” scores, while the scores of five in that category decreased as against 2019.
Historically this category has been notoriously easy to fudge since NIRF has not really seemed to inquire too closely into that data.
A case in point, Nalsar Hyderabad, which in the 2018 NIRF submissions had somewhat (perhaps accidentally) overstated its median salary as being Rs 18 lakh.
However, this year, its graduation outcomes score dropped from 83.37 in 2019 to 77.73, despite submitting nearly identical data to last year (see below).
It’s likely what has happened is that a lot of other submissions may have revised (or massaged) their jobs / GO figures upwards, resulting in a lower relative score for Nalsar, though some further analysis may be required there.
Others to have dropped in the GO category are: SLS Pune, RGNUL Patiala, RMLNLU Lucknow and NLIU Bhopal.
Perception
NLSIU yet again scored maximum perception marks of 100, no doubt benefiting from its status as India’s first national law school.
The nearest rivals in perception is Nalsar, which scored around 71, while NLU Delhi plummeted 10 perception points from last year’s 75 to 65 this year.
Keeping up your perceptions is clearly a fickle pursuit in the NIRF game.
Fourth-ranked outside-entry IIT Kharagpur lost ground in perception from 47 to 39 (though its engineering course is ranked fifth in that category, with a perception score of 89.3.
So what goes into perception? According to NIRF:
A. Peer Perception: Employers & Academic Peer (PR): 100 marks
- This is to be done through a survey conducted over a large category of Employers, Professionals from Reputed Organizations and a large category of academics to ascertain their preference for graduates of different institutions.
- Comprehensive list will be prepared taking into account various sectors, regions, etc.
- Lists to be updated periodically.
The table of 2020 best NIRF law schools
Fuller scores tabulated below for easy comparison (total and individual scores that have vis-a-vis last year, marked below).
| 2020 Rank | 2019 Rank | Law school | Score | 2019 Score | Download Submission (pdf) | Teaching, Learning & Resources (TLR) | Research & Professional Practice (RPC) | Graduation Outcomes (GO) | Outreach & Inclusivity (OI) | Perception | TLR ‘19 | RPC ‘19 | GO ‘19 | OI ‘19 | Perc ‘19 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1 | NLSIU Bangalore | 78.66🔼 | 77.21 | (pdf) | 84.3 ⬇️ | 41.07 🔼 | 85.13 🔼 | 75.03 ⬇️ | 100 = | 85.16 | 38.77 | 78.96 | 76.02 | 100 |
| 2 | 2 | NLU Delhi | 74.02⬇️ | 76.23 | (pdf) | 90.73 ⬇️ | 45.21 ⬇️ | 67.77 🔼 | 74.67 🔼 | 65.36 ⬇️ | 92.3 | 52.69 | 66.34 | 73.12 | 75.2 |
| 3 | 3 | Nalsar Hyderabad | 73.12⬇️ | 74.61 | (pdf) | 83.28 ⬇️ | 39.74 🔼 | 77.73 ⬇️ | 73.22 🔼 | 70.96 🔼 | 84.3 | 38.49 | 83.37 | 72.57 | 70.2 |
| 4 | 4 | IIT Kharagpur | 71.44🔼 | 69.81 | (pdf) | 81 🔼 | 73.78 🔼 | 69.16 🔼 | 67.68 🔼 | 39.07 ⬇️ | 78.37 | 73.22 | 65.42 | 64.6 | 46.57 |
| 5 | 6 | NLU Jodhpur | 64.29🔼 | 63.94 | (pdf) | 74.48 🔼 | 26.85 ⬇️ | 78.05 🔼 | 65.16 ⬇️ | 44.35 🔼 | 71.62 | 34.27 | 77.92 | 66.17 | 40.55 |
| 6 | 5 | NUJS Kolkata | 63.32⬇️ | 65.39 | (pdf) | 70.52 ⬇️ | 35.19 ⬇️ | 68.59 🔼 | 69.75 🔼 | 57.09 ⬇️ | 73.61 | 35.25 | 68.16 | 69.34 | 66.89 |
| 7 | 9 | GNLU Gandhinagar | 60.78🔼 | 58.64 | (pdf) | 69.67 ⬇️ | 35.83 🔼 | 68.56 🔼 | 67.92 ⬇️ | 36.15 🔼 | 69.79 | 22.62 | 66.9 | 70.2 | 35.98 |
| 8 | 7 | SLS Pune | 59.54⬇️ | 60.68 | (pdf) | 72 🔼 | 16.72 ⬇️ | 67.48 ⬇️ | 77.47 🔼 | 36.15 ⬇️ | 61.86 | 17.19 | 81.93 | 76.91 | 51.84 |
| 9 | 8 | Jamia Millia Islamia | 57.93⬇️ | 59.49 | (pdf) | 59.24 ⬇️ | 35 ⬇️ | 72.2 🔼 | 76.31 🔼 | 33.01 ⬇️ | 62.15 | 51.04 | 64.4 | 72.66 | 35.98 |
| 10 | 10 | RGNUL Patiala | 54.19⬇️ | 55.53 | (pdf) | 62.14 ⬇️ | 29.23 🔼 | 59.13 ⬇️ | 72.22 🔼 | 29.62 ⬇️ | 63.31 | 29.01 | 60.35 | 71.75 | 35.98 |
| 11 | 14 | RMLNLU Lucknow | 53.57🔼 | 52.39 | (pdf) | 62.79 ⬇️ | 2.46 🔼 | 78.65 ⬇️ | 48.12 ⬇️ | 36.15 🔼 | 65.54 | 0 | 79.41 | 48.8 | 14.36 |
| 12 | 12 | KIIT Bhubaneswar | 52.83⬇️ | 52.96 | (pdf) | 76.11 ⬇️ | 27.06 🔼 | 39.66 🔼 | 71.84 🔼 | 12.36 ⬇️ | 77.73 | 23.83 | 35.46 | 63.42 | 30.86 |
| 13 | Aligarh Muslim University | 52.28🆕 | (new) | (pdf) | 46.95 | 26.48 | 91.05 | 34.7 | 33.01 | ||||||
| 14 | NLU Cuttack, Odisha | 51.94🆕 | (new) | (pdf) | 63.82 | 22.69 | 49.13 | 60.51 | 46.76 | ||||||
| 15 | Panjab University Chandigarh | 51.11🆕 | (new) | (pdf) | 54.42 | 29.6 | 60.5 | 71.8 | 25.93 | ||||||
| 16 | NLUJA Assam | 49.9🆕 | (new) | (pdf) | 70.55 | 22.57 | 37.44 | 67.42 | 21.88 | ||||||
| 17 | 11 | NLIU Bhopal | 49.6⬇️ | 53.41 | (pdf) | 54.39 ⬇️ | 24.98 🔼 | 58.53 ⬇️ | 55.54 ⬇️ | 39.07 ⬇️ | 58.83 | 24.95 | 61.67 | 56.95 | 50.15 |
| 18 | 13 | Indian Law Institute Delhi | 49.44⬇️ | 52.42 | (pdf) | 52.36 ⬇️ | 15.06 ⬇️ | 57.02 🔼 | 59.29 🔼 | 60.6 ⬇️ | 63.74 | 19.87 | 49.86 | 49.25 | 65.73 |
| 19 | BHU Varanasi | 49.17🆕 | (new) | (pdf) | 50.08 | 24.79 | 70.81 | 35.39 | 41.79 | ||||||
| 20 | Christ University, Bangalore | 48.01🆕 | (new) | (pdf) | 50.51 | 18.36 | 54.32 | 65.82 | 49.04 |
More than 97 law schools participated this time
In 2018, that number was only 71, so at least NIRF is expanding its sample size (despite some obvious hold-outs), see below.
The participating law colleges this year were:
- Aligarh Muslim University Aligarh Uttar Pradesh
- All Saints Christain Law College Visakhapatnam Andhra Pradesh
- Allahabad Degree College Allahabad Uttar Pradesh
- Alliance University Bengaluru Karnataka
- Amity University Noida Gautam Budh Nagar Uttar Pradesh
- Army Institute of Law Mohali Punjab
- Assam University Silchar Assam
- Banaras Hindu University Varanasi Uttar Pradesh
- Bankura University Bankura West Bengal
- BHARATI VIDYAPEETH DEEMED UNIVERSITY NEW LAW COLLEGE, PUNE Pune Maharashtra
- C. U. Shah University Wadhwan City Gujarat
- Career Law College Bhopal Madhya Pradesh
- Career Point University Hamirpur Himachal Pradesh
- Central University of Haryana Mahendergarh Haryana
- Chankaya National Law University Patna Bihar
- Choudhary Charan Singh University Meerut Uttar Pradesh
- Christ University Bengaluru Karnataka
- Cochin University of Science and Technology Cochin Kerala
- Damodaram Sanjivayya National Law University Visakhapatnam Andhra Pradesh
- Desh Bhagat University Gobindgarh Punjab
- Devi Ahilya Vishwavidyalaya Indore Madhya Pradesh
- Devi Sharvani Education Society`s V.M. Salgaocar College of Law Miramar North Goa Goa
- Dr. Ambedkar College, Deekshabhoomi Nagpur Maharashtra
- Dr. B. R. Ambedkar College of Law Visakhapatnam Andhra Pradesh
- Dr. B.R. Ambedkar Government Law College Puducherry Pondicherry
- Dr. Panjabrao Deshmukh Law College , Morshi Road . Amravati Maharashtra
- Dr. Ram Manohar Lohiya National Law University Lucknow Uttar Pradesh
- G. D. Goenka University Gurgaon Haryana
- Galgotias University Gautam Budh Nagar Uttar Pradesh
- Glocal University Saharanpur Uttar Pradesh
- Gujarat National Law University Gandhinagar Gujarat
- Guru Ghasidas Vishwavidyalaya Bilaspur Chhattisgarh
- Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University New Delhi Delhi
- Haldia Law College Haldia West Bengal
- Himachal Pradesh University Shimla Himachal Pradesh
- I.M.S. LAW COLLEGE A-8B, SECTOR-62, INSTITUTIONAL ARYA ,NOIDA Ph. No :- 241050-51-43 Gautam Budh Nagar Uttar Pradesh
- ICFAI Foundation for Higher Education Hyderabad Telangana
- IMS UNISON UNIVERSITY Dehradun Uttarakhand
- Indian Institute of Technology Kharagpur Kharagpur West Bengal
- Indian Law Institute New Delhi Delhi
- Institute of Chatertered Financial Analysts of India, Dehradun Dehradun Uttarakhand
- ISMAILSAHEB MULLA LAW COLLEGE Satara Maharashtra
- J. S. S. Law College Mysuru Karnataka
- JAGRAN LAKECITY UNIVERSITY, BHOPAL Bhopal Madhya Pradesh
- Jamia Millia Islamia New Delhi Delhi
- Kalinga Institute of Industrial Technology Bhubaneswar Odisha
- Kumaun University, Nainital Nainital Uttarakhand
- Law college, Akola Akola Maharashtra
- M.S. Ramaiah College of Law, Bangalore Bangalore Karnataka
- Maharshi Dayanand University Rohtak Haryana
- Marathwada Legal’s & General Education Society’s, Manikchand Pahade Law College, Samarthnagar Road. Aurangabad Maharashtra
- Marathwada Mitra Mandal’s Shankarrao Chavan Law College, Pune 4 Pune Maharashtra
- Mody Institute of Technology & Science, Sikar Sikar, Rajasthan Rajasthan
- Mohan Lal Sukhadia University Udaipur Rajasthan
- N. E. F. Law College Kamrup Assam
- Nalsar University of Law Hyderabad Telangana
- National Law Institute University, Bhopal Bhopal Madhya Pradesh
- National Law School of India University Bengaluru Karnataka
- National Law University Cuttack Odisha
- National Law University Jodhpur Rajasthan
- National Law University New Delhi Delhi
- National Law University and Judicial Academy Kamrup Assam
- Nehru Gram Bharati Allahabad Uttar Pradesh
- New Law College Ahmednagar Maharashtra
- Nirma University Ahmedabad Gujarat
- Panjab University Chandigarh Chandigarh
- Ponnaiyah Ramajayam Institute of Science & Technology Thanjavur Tamil Nadu
- PRESIDENCY UNIVERSITY , BENGALURU Bengaluru Karnataka
- Rabindranath Tagore University Raisen Madhya Pradesh
- RAYAT BAHRA UNIVERSITY Sahibzada Ajit Singh Nagar Punjab
- Reva University Bengaluru Karnataka
- RNB Global University Bikaner Rajasthan
- S. D. M. Law College Mangaluru Karnataka
- S. S. M. Law College Jalgaon Maharashtra
- Saveetha Institute of Medical and Technical Sciences Chennai Tamil Nadu
- Seth Chunilal Amarchand Bohra Law College, Raichur RAICHUR Karnataka
- Shivaji Law College Parbhani Maharashtra
- Shobhit-University Meerut Uttar Pradesh
- Shri Swami Vivekanand Shikshan Sanstha’s, Law College. Osmanabad Maharashtra
- Sikkim Government Law College Gangtok Sikkim
- Smt. Nathibai Damodar Thackersey Women’s Univeristy Mumbai Maharashtra
- Sri Shirdi Sai Law College Anakapalli Andhra Pradesh
- SRM University Sonepat Haryana
- St. Andrews P.G. College, Gorakhpur GORAKHPUR Uttar Pradesh
- Symbiosis Law School Pune Maharashtra
- Tamil Nadu Dr. Ambedkar Law University Chennai Tamil Nadu
- Teerthanker Mahaveer University Moradabad Uttar Pradesh
- The Institute of Chartered Financial Analysts of India University Agartala Tripura
- The Rajiv Gandhi National University of Law Patiala Punjab
- The Rashtrasant Tukadoji Maharaj Nagpur University Nagpur Maharashtra
- The West Bengal National University of Juridicial Sciences Kolkata West Bengal
- University of Jammu Jammu Jammu and Kashmir
- University of Petroleum and Energy Studies Dehradun Uttarakhand
- Uttaranchal University Dehradun Uttarakhand
- Veer Narmad South Gujarat University Surat Gujarat
- Vidya Vikas Mandals Govind Ramnath Kare College of Law Margao South Goa Goa
- Vidyavardhaka Law College, Mysore Mysore Karnataka
11 June 2020: It’s NIRF Liveblog time
11:48: It’s nearly NIRF-o-clock (see below) and we’ll be live blogging the online release of the National Institutional Ranking Framework (NIRF) rankings.
Dr Ramesh Pokhriyal Nishank, the HRD minister, has been promised to live tweet the announcements on his Twitter account.
11:56: Last year, the top three schools in the law category had been taken up, neck-to-neck, by NLSIU Bangalore, NLU Delhi and Nalsar Hyderabad.
IIT Kharagpur, despite having had a relatively low profile in the legal profession at least as far as we’re aware, has always performed well in the NIRF, coming fourth last year, followed by, in order: NUJS Kolkata, NLU Jodhpur and SLS Pune, Jamia Milia Islamia, GNLU Gandhinagar, RGNUL Patiala, NLIU Bhopal, Kalinga Institue of Industrial Technology, Indian Law Institute (ILI), RMLNLU Lucknow and BR Ambedkar College of Law.
JGLS Sonepat and its parent Jindal Global University (JGU) has been staying out of the NIRF process to date.
12:06: The main reason NIRF is fairly exciting, as far as law school rankings go, is that after years of opaque, mostly awful and often apparently semi-paid-for magazine law school rankings, at least the NIRF has some element of transparency in its methodology and submissions process. And not having a profit motive to justify its existence also helps.
12:09: The webcast has just gone live here. Just as in millions of Zoom-esque calls before them, ministers and NIRFers hang around awkwardly waiting for everyone to dial in, making small talk and greeting each new joinee. Awkward…
12:13: Ok, the main proceedings appear to have started now. Virtual vote of thanks and obligatory roll call of all attendees.
12:21: Surprise, it’s official: it’s impossible to replicate the pomp and circumstance of a physical ceremony online. But on the plus side, VCs can attend in their pyjamas.
12:30: Hindi is apparently the lingua franca of this year’s ceremony. Fortunately for non-Hindi-native-speakers, you don’t seem to be missing much right now beyond general sentiments about the value of education (this would be the time in a physical ceremony that attendees would start furtively checking their phones and social media feeds).
12:37: Yes, sorry, more speeches (at least the fourth to hold forth, so far).
12:47: The fifth speaker now… We predict at least another 20 minutes of this but will let you know once the rankings begin.
12:59: This must be the final speech now by Pokhriyal himself.
13:06: Our estimate of 20 minutes may have been optimistic. Apologies. We should have realised all bets are off when a minister gets the mic in a webinar (much like managing partners).
13:09: The NIC is using Periscope (remember Periscope?) to live stream this shindig to Twitter. The live video and comments feed over there is full of students calling for cancellation of entrance exams (as well as of the speeches continuing).
13:36: No change at the top of the law rankings: NLSIU Bangalore, then NLU Delhi, then Nalsar Hyderabad. But let’s wait for the scores and the full rankings.
13:44: Apologies for the delayed update above: we had indeed missed the announcement initially and taken a break from the stream for five minutes, as a commenter had noticed…
14:04: The full law ranking is now out (see picture).
10 June 2020
As we had reported in April, the ceremony had been postponed due to the pandemic.
However, the ceremony will now be an online one. Shame for all the VCs and dignitaries who won’t get to shake hands with other dignitaries, but good news that the data will out.
Comments
National Law School of India University Bengaluru 77.21
National Law University Delhi 76.23
Nalsar University of Law Hyderabad 74.61
Chinese, Germans, French and a whole lot of others have fared pretty well without keeping English on a pedestal. We can too if people change their mindset.
2. NLU Delhi
3. NALSAR
1st pe Maa Vaishno Devi Law College jab tak nahi aata, We shall not rest.
My god the difference this ranking has made tk my life.
Don't forget ranbir singh was the founding vc of NALSAR also till he came to Delhi to serve up NLUD
Faculty:
1. NLUD
2. NALSAR
3. NLSIU
Placements:
1. NLSIU
2. NALSAR
3. NLUD
Infrastructure:
1. NLUD
2. NALSAR
3. NLSIU
Research:
1. NLUD
2. NALSAR
3. NLSIU
Moots:
1. NLSIU
2. NALSAR
3. NLUD
Where are all the Noojies with their "we are second to NLS and better at corporate placements than everyone else" slogans? This is what happens when you are happy at your self-proclaimed number 2, you fall even further below.
On what ground, pray tell? I'm looking for more comedy. These rankings evince nothing. It's better to just have a laugh at them and go about with your day, rather than being petulant about rankings.
PS- I don't know how well regarded they actually are. I'm responding solely to the assumption that a Patent Law institution doesn't "deserve" to be 4th.
1. Has IIT brand and it is Institution of Eminence, so the perception score will be high by default.
2. Tiny batch size, so faculty:student ratio is good.
3. Some of the parameters are the parameters for IIT KGP overall, e.g. NAAC score is for IIT KGP overall, campus is 2,000 acres and includes a hospital and football stadium. Technically, it is not lying if they say all this.
1. NLSIU
2. NALSAR
3. NLUD
4. NUJS
5. MNLU-M
6. GNLU
7. NLIU
8. NLUJj
9. RGNUL
10. RMLNLU
[img]https://i.imgflip.com/44r6ri.jpg[/img]
I am home alone and preparing my breakfast.
LOL After reading the point regarding worst hostel facilities, I am missing the breakfast right now.
The specially-abled students at NUJS, with leg disability or vision impairment on their own, are able to use the lifts.
Also, it is better that NUJS has a 5-acre campus for them, instead of some 50-acre campus where they would waste some 40 mins in travelling from hostel to academic block.
They insulted the Governor (who is a Senior Advocate) but suck up to the third-rate law minister despite serious allegations of corruption against him.
They attack the BJP but are silent on the many misdeeds of Mamata. They invite Derek O'Brien and allow him to take the college's name to bash the BJP.
Hopefully you will learn a lesson now.
And btw, if you look at the NIRF data submitted by NUJS to the MHRD this year, they have literally included every achievement of their students conceivable - including some competition wins by students who have already passed out. The top 3 didn't include all of that. It's a good law school nevertheless, but evidently, it's far from being one of the best anymore.
By saying these type of nonsense you're just making a fool of you along with confusing candidates who deserved NUJS but chose an inferior one.
But yeah I agree it's far from the best as we all know there is no law school who can beat JGLS at this moment.
Underestimating other law schools wont take you anywhere. For how long brand will fetch you things. accept the change.
The challenge now is to retain the Rank 5 position. More Power to SJA !!!! (sarcastic laughter)
P.S. - It feels very lonely in this comments section without you legal luminaries and your arbitrary rankings.
Typical play-safe bullshit.
https://www.barandbench.com/news/nlsiu-tops-2020-nirf-rankings-for-law-schools-top-ten-largely-unchanged
1. Perception
2. Research & Professional Practice (RPC)
As far as perception is concerned, you cannot expect much of a law school with a pathetic website and a VC who only cares about himself and refuses to publicise achievements like the Vienna Moot win in the media.
As far as research is concerned, thanks to Talukdar and a rather particular professor some research centres suffered. Under the current VC, you have disasters like the recent Covid journal -- published by a mysteriously appointment head of a mysteriously created cenre. But even independent of research centres, professors who are competent will always publish and get consultancy assignments --- right now very few such professors exist.
NLUD case will be a bit different. It will have 50% reservation, and also for people from such a small area.
One other time, this NALSAR kid who was interning with me even had the gall to spell out the entire full form of NALSAR when I asked him where he was from. Needless to say, I was quite taken aback and felt quite violated (intellectually). I seriously hope you won't have the misfortune of running into more of their kind. Peace out.
Faaltu me apne inferiority complex ko hide karne ke liye kuch bhi mat bolo
You go around saying that if you want and try and guess what people will make of you. Hint: It won't be a positive one - if anything, it shows your insecurity if you need to say it out loud so that people think higher of you.
Just because you think it's an "inferiority complex" to call out someone like that, it doesn't make it so and it also doesn't take away from the cheap pretentiousness of such a response. And yeah, most NALSAR people I've meet are on these lines, one way or the other. If it's the norm these days for Nalsarites to go around telling everyone that "I Study at National Academy of Legal Studies and Research Hyderabad", then that's an indicator of your own low self-worth outside your law school identity.
Why don't we just go back to the dinosaur rankings from the early 2000s that all these NALSAR, NLIU and NUJS kids here keep citing, where the law schools were just ranked in the order of their establishment and everyone was happy? As far as recruiters go, there's a reason that only some 5-odd NLUs even have a proper Day-Zero. Why not have a Day Zero at RML and NLUO as well then considering that everyone is so charitable these days?
If the Noojie kids spend more time doing internships than they do in college because of the crap infrastructure and lack of space, then yeah, enjoy your better Day-Zero. And do realise that 90% of the big firm recruiters are alums of the older law schools, so it's not exactly a surprise when they try to give back.
I still rest my case on the fact that while the quality of the students in the top 5 NLUs is not that different, their access to better resources and faculty certainly is.
- AMU's placements/LLM offers are #1 in India and better than all NLUs.
- RMLNU's placements/LLM offers are #3 in India and better than NALSAR.
- Symbiosis is the most inclusive law school in the country, followed by Jamia.
- KIIT Bhubaneshwar has the fifth best faculty in the country.
- Christ's perception score is higher than NLUJ, NLIU, RGNUL, RMLNLU, HNLU etc.
1) Teaching, Learning & Resources (TLR): NLUD>NLSIU>NALSAR>IIT Kharagpur>KIIT Bhubaneshwar.
2) Research & Professional Practice (RPC): IIT Kharagpur>NLUD>NLSIU>NALSAR>GNLU.
3) Graduation Outcomes (GO): AMU>NLSIU>RMLNLU>NLUJ>NALSAR.
4) Outreach & Inclusivity (OI): Symbiosis>Jamia>NLSIU>NLUD>NALSAR.
5) Perception: NLSIU>NALSAR>NLUD>NUJS>Christ
Research publications might be an another issue. However, the current VC has come up with some centres (Sports Law, Mining Law, Mediation, Media Law) etc. and hopefully this will be showcased in the rankings in the next year. Also students and student run societies are working extra-ordinarily hard (even the dead and the defunct socities revived this year) to boost the reputation of the college. It is not just Vienna but also the organisational activities carried out. The future promises to be bright.
[img]https://www.legallyindia.com/images/uploads/20200612-161815.jpg[/img]
[Ed: Names redacted]
1. NLUD
2. NLSIU
3. NALSAR
4. JGLS
5. GNLU
[quote]At some point we will participate in NIRF too, but at the moment we focus on international rankings. [/quote]
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/there-has-been-a-historic-prejudice-against-private-universities/articleshow/66600397.cms
https://twitter.com/asurendranath/status/1271038102832771073
There won't be any exodus anywhere, LI comments section has been declaring faculty doomsday for years now but that tweet isn't proof of anything.
Also, an attempt to poach faculty from other NLUs is being made. NLU profs can feign ignorance, but back channel talks are taking place.
NLUD, on the other hand, is a government institution with all the benefits that come with a government job including, in some cases, post-retirement benefits. There is also not a dearth of It isn't easy to get a job there unlike in JGLS. The new VC will seriously have to put in effort if he wants some of the established faculty who have wildly successful research centres there to actually pack their bags for Sonepat. JGLS is aiming too high if it actually wants to break into the top 3 in NIRF on any parameter, especially since they keep increasing the batch size every year without any focus on the quality of students coming into the institution. But you never know.
1. No. of students finishing PhD in a particular year
2. No. of students finishing their UG and PG degree in minimum stipulated time
NLIU is severely hurt by the 2nd one as some subjects in NLIU have an extremely high fail rate going to as high as 80-90 students in a batch failing. Consequently many students are unable to finish their degree in time. (20-30%)
With regards to PhD students, NLIU doesn't admit many. Another reason being that NLIU is located in Bhopal and hence lesser demand for PhD candidates.
1. The name of the college is "NLSIU Bengaluru" and not "NLS Bangalore" (despite what Kian Ganz says). The provincial name for the city also reflects the new domicile quota well (soon to be hiked to 50%).
2. While "NLS Bangalore" can still be tolerated, what cannot be tolerated is "Law School". The arrogance of acting like you are the only law school is shocking. Even Harvard students do not say that they are from "Law School" (and Harvard had "Law School" in its name ages before NLSIU).
3. What also cannot be tolerated is the term "Harvard of the East". There are some 20 law schools from Asia ranked ahead in QS and no one outside NLSIU uses this term.
4. What is absolutely unpardonable (and should be made a criminal offence punishable by life imprisonment) is Venkata Rao's statement that "Harvard is the Bengaluru of the West".
It's like saying "I don't care that the city has chosen to call itself something else, I will use the name convenient to me".
The "brilliant job" was mostly in writing some pathetic objections to the current VC's appointment. Pathetic because it was neither warranted nor successful. Other than that the SJA has done jackshit. Even the chaiwala contributes more to NUJS (the one outside the campus).
The "digital lecture series" is just a plain old webinar that every tom,dick, harry college is organizing. Nothing "innovative" about that.
Mismanagement continues. Unlike NLSIU where Sudhir took a controversial and debatable decision to hold open book exams remotely, the NUJS VC was practically gheraoed by the students and several faculty into withdrawing the decision to hold exams. It's difficult to say which was worse, the spineless VC, the obnoxious students or the conniving self-serving faculty.
Again, why did a unanimously elected Prez / Vice-prez "resign" two weeks after their win. If a little birdie is to be believed there's another wave of faculty politics going on that has claimed these two. Just another day for the shit faculty there but another punch in the guts for NUJS.
No wonder that the popular perception is that it's one of the most anal places to be where shit happening is a way of life.
If a law school keeps messing up in the rankings because of admin failures and the like, then where is the incentive for students (prospective, current and old) to give their 100% towards it. In that way, these rankings are a real test of how good a law school is faring and to dismiss them saying that CLAT preferences will not be affected is quite naive.
Please publish this image. This shows the dark truth behind the academic rigour that PR Krishnaswamy so proudly proclaims.
2. First, scan through the candidates who were selected in NLU Delhi. And then find out how many candidates scored really well in CLAT that year. You would be astonished to know that "a few blue-eyed babies" selected in NLU Delhi were very lowly placed in CLAT. This is in no way to undermine the very talented and meritorious students of NLU-D who have really brought their institution at no.2 in NIRF.
3. NLU- Delhi would eventually join CLAT and it would be no.1 choice of the students.
Point being, an exam does not determine your intelligence or your future success. The competition for seats is quite intense and all the students to cracked the top 3-4 NLUs should be proud of their effort, but they should also thank their lucky stars for having a good day in that exam.
Vice Chancellor Sudhir Krishnaswamy says the institute will give a big push to research, outreach and inclusivity, for the upcoming academic year, due to start in July.
https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/bengaluru/2020/jun/12/nlsiu-bengaluru-all-set-for-revamp-2155435.html
https://twitter.com/mandorecollege
Rajeev was not at JGLS prior to his PhD. Therefore, he couldn't have gone on leave to do the same. You are right about Prabhakar and Oishik.
https://www.brown.edu/academics/political-science/sites/brown.edu.academics.political-science/files/uploads/KadambiCV_0.pdf
Earlier you chose to not report on this as well https://www.barandbench.com/news/blatant-disregard-for-reservation-polices-in-nlus-backward-classes-commission-summons-vcs-state-authorities
Several VCs did not attend this meet. No one from NUJS attended this meet.
Just because BB has reported, does not mean that you cannot (or will not). You have often regurgitated stuff that appeared elsewhere without any value addition.
With so much talk on "rankings" it will be interesting to know what really gets counted beyond the platitudes of inclusion etc.
Or maybe he had so many columns to write and interviews to give. Does NCBC not know about this (profusely) bleeding heart?
Kian, please send a formal email to NALSAR students or VC requesting the details. We will happily share. We are not crooked like NLUD students..
1. Flaws in NIRF ranking.
2. Actual details of placements in law schools.
3. Hard details of faculty and publication output in law schools.
4. Comments from VCs on their NIRF performance.
5. Whether JGLS will enter NIRF next year and if they are doing PR for that reason.
6. NLUD VC selection status
7. NLSIU faculty appointment status.
8. NLSIU domicile bill status.
9. OBC reservation controversy across NLUs.
10. Status of #NationaliseNLUs bill by Minakshi Lekhi.
8. Passed
7. Stuck for now, due to Covid19 related delays
6. Same as 7
5. No. The VC has said after 3 years of international rankings.
3. Check websites, compare.
2. Check LI, they do decent job here.
Don't be disillusioned, the info is all around you. Search, research, analyse, and most importantly - do yourselves what others won't do for you.
Actually, it is 50% faculty.
1. You must have heard of the infamous Vyapam exam scam in MP. In NLIU too there has been a major scam. Students who deserved to fail were passed. Over 8,000 students were wrongly passed, including one person who failed 47 times. The media is also reporting that degrees are sold. See reports below from TOI and HT.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhopal/failed-47-times-but-got-nliu-degree/articleshow/67608364.cms
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/nliu-to-check-8-000-degrees-of-past-13-years-for-irregularities/story-IMlFrMDTBPYbtMyTsjEaQK.html
2. From the above, you will believe me when I say that the quality of both students and faculty has fallen compared to early batches. One reason for this is that there is a big domicile quota of MP in both students and faculty.
3. Because of the quota the dominant culture is also of MP, i.e. majoritarian, Hindi-speaking and conservative. There is a lack of diversity.
4. Instances of indiscipline by students has really increased. Ask anyone.
5. Placements has gone down. You can see on Legally India itself. Success in UPSC has also gone down. LLM scholarships abroad has gone down.
So please think carefully while making your CLAT preference. Recently, even NUALS has a very good placement and the college is coming up.
1. For 8000 fake degrees to be issued in 13 years, NLIU has to issue over 600 fake degrees a year. NLIU's UG batch has 120 seats (used to be 80 a couple of years earlier) and PG has barely 60 seats (used to be even lesser earlier). PhD students have always been in single digits.
Less than 2000 students have enrolled in NLIU in 13 years. Do not know how 4 times the number of enrolled people were wrongly passed.
2. Do not make unsubstantiated claims.
NLIU in Stetson World Rounds in last 3 years: Runners Up, Quarters, Runners Up
NLIU in Vis HK last year: Semis
NLIU in Ian Fletcher last year: Winners
NLIU in Vis Vienna in last 4 years: Octas, Round of 64, Winners of Budapest Pre Moot and Octas
NLIU in Jessup World Rounds in last 4 years: Quarters and Round of 32
5. NLIU's 2021 batch has had the highest number of PPOs in NLIU history. How is this bad placement? In the last 5 years, NLIU students have been admitted to Harvard Law School, Oxford and QMUL among many others.
https://myllbadmission.com/direct-admission-in-nlsiu-ba-llb-management-quota-seats/
https://myllbadmission.com/direct-admission-in-nalsar-ba-llb-management-quota-seats/
https://myllbadmission.com/direct-admission-in-nujs-kolkata-management-quota-seats-ba-llb/
American law school "rankings" are not one-dimensional like India. Different schools have different strengths and applicants select a school on that basis. Lots of Harvard undergraduates deliberately go elsewhere if their career is not on HLS' course priority or strength. Stanford is way behind many others for corporate and arbitration law. Anyways, being close to a financial or political capital does help hugely. Plenty of applicants do not go to CA because it's so far from the job markets (unless they want to focus on IPR or new-tech). Georgetown is excellent for applicants wanting to join government service (but our desi khokhas cant so they obviously consider Georgetown as "low ranked")
Word of advice. Dont mention this logic to an american or you'll look like a fool.
On the other hand, Georgetown is nowhere in this league. "Government Service" in America is not what it is in India. Entry level positions are not coveted, because lateral entry is normal at the higher levels. People from H/Y prefer to start out at BigLaw and then specialise/transition to government. So, places like Georgetown are feeders into the lower ranks.
So, yes, I will mention it, since I've rather well versed with the American legal education system. In fact the only jokers are those who pretend "rankings don't matter" or "Columbia is as good as Yale".
https://www.telegraphindia.com/states/west-bengal/visva-bharati-suspends-ex-vc/cid/1780719?ref=west-bengal_home-template
Something similar took place at NUJS. Although this was never brought up explicitly since it would have embarrassed the powers that be, a VC and an Acting Registrar made quick exits when the campus erupted. Of course the SJA had no idea why the powers that be were suddenly receptive.
Will the new VC learn?
https://nujs.edu/careers/advert-guest-faculty-12062020.pdf
Also 35K is not too low as certain judges don't get many (or any) arbitration cases and certain intellectual judges will enjoy teaching and researching.
NLU Delhi spent 53 lacs on lab equipment against NLS spending zero
NLU Delhi spent 1.13 Cr on conferences against NLS spending 10 lacs
These numbers are giving me a headache. Can someone please explain them?
Also, how are these universities spending so much on salaries? NLS (17.30 Cr) against NLU Delhi (19.30 Cr)?
and maintenance of Academic Infrastructure or consumables and other running expenditures NLS (10.70 Cr) against NLU Delhi (18.26 Cr)?
Salaries increased drastically after 7th pay commission and NLU has more faculty (and almost all full time) than NLS currently.
Whatever NALSAR has earned has been through zero PR. We chose not to bow to Sadghguru even though he could have helped us in PR.
You chose not to bow down to Sadhguru? Sadhguru might be a major fraud but those [...] NALSAR kids who tried (and failed) to take him on didn’t come out on top. Rather than to listen and then disagree and respond to his crap, you guys tried to pull off lame jokes to look cool and then made needless insulting and mocking remarks despite the fact that you [...] had invited him to speak. The whole show really depicted NALSAR [...] in poorer light than Sadhguru. He actually came off as the more mature and reasonable individual after all that (which he probably is compared to [...]).
(I’ve seen the entire video, not just the Sadhguru channel’s one)
MBA - crap agree.
MBA leading to increase in law fee - haha, idiot. Did you graduate NALSAR in 2014-17 period?
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eac4AfOVcAAXsbm.jpg[/img]
1) Don't absolve Bhat, Taluk and PIB please. This is dishonest.
2) Why do you praise just the first three batches? Vienna happened a few weeks ago! Have you ever brought laurels to the college?
3) Why do you say alumni stopped visiting Kolkata? Many excellent alumni still have families there. They do visit the city from time to time. It's just that they need to be invited.
4) Re faculty, the good ones left under PIB, who you absolve. But the faculty in most other places is mediocre too. Also, a system of guest lecturers, especially alumni, and online lectures (already happening) can bridge the gap.
While the corresponding batch at NLU Delhi has secured Zero (0) PPOs, yes you read that right, ZERO. I hope this gives some perspective to the students appearing for CLAT.
[Ed: Information in this comment is not confirmed]
Comment #101.1: I have listed the mooting, LLM admissions and placements of NLIU in the last 2-4 yrs.
As far as Alumni achievements are concerned, the capital markets and disputes practice group of Trilegal are headed by NLIU alums.
LnL's Mumbai Disputes practice is headed by an NLIU alum.
NLIU has equity partners in each and every top 10 law firm.
A couple of NLIU alums are Professors and Associate Professors.
NLIU consistently dominates the MP Judiciary selections with alums being in Delhi Judiciary as well.
Several NLIU alums are AoRs at SC. Many more have extremely successful practices in High Courts.
I think "woke stuff" should be made mandatory, and greater focus should be given on them. That way, we'll end up with more empathetic, sensitive law graduates, and not clueless wannabe Masters of the Universe like you.
- Training Contracts
- Offers by Big 7
- Rhodes, Chevening etc scholarships
- Moots
- Faculty with NLU degrees and LLMs.
Using this, the ranking becomes:
1. NLSIU
2. NALSAR
3. NUJS
4. GNLU
5. NLUD
6. JGLS
7. NLUJ
8. NLIU
9. NUALS
10. RGNUL
1. While it is true that NLIU candidates do not regularly get vacation schemes or TCs, many NLIU alums are now working in Magic Circle firms.
2. When it comes to Big 7 offers (% of people placed in Big 7 as compared to the total number of people opting for placements), NLIU is above GNLU, NLUD, JGLS and NLUJ. NLIU places over 50% of the candidates who opt for placement in Big 7. GNLU and JGLS get comparable or more number of offers merely due to the much higher batch size.
3. NLIU has not produced a Rhodes scholar yet and I do not know about Chevening scholars in previous years. However, this year alone NLIU has produced at least 2 Chevening scholars. NLIU has also produced JN Tata scholars, Sir Richard May Trust Award Winners, etc.
4. NLIU is far better at mooting as compared to GNLU, NLUD, JGLS and NLUJ. Name another college that has made it to the Finals of the Stetson World Rounds twice within 3 years. NLIU has consistently dominated the Vis Moot platform as well, ending up twice in the Round of 16 at Vienna within the last 4 years and ending up in the Semi Finals of Hong Kong, besides winning both Budapest and Malaysia. NLIU was the first Indian college to win Ian Fletcher last year. NLIU has made it to the Jessup World Rounds twice in the last 4 years, ending up in the Quarter Finals once. Let us not forget other mooting achievements like King's College HSF Moot Semifinals or NUJS HSF Runners Up or Leiden World Rounds Semi Finalists or ULC Bangalore Winners (a random 1st year team did this). NLIU has also bagged the best speaker award at GNLU for 3 consecutive years.
5. NLIU faculty members:
MHRD IPR Chair
Ministry of Consumer Affairs Consumer Protection & Welfare Chair
NLU Postgrads: 9 (8 NLIU + 1 GNLU)
NLU Undergrads: 3 (All NLIU)
Faculty with Foreign Education/Research: 5 (Barrister, US State Dept (IVLP), Fullbright Fellowship, Texas Instruments Scholarship(CASRIP) & British Council Scholarship)
Having checked the statistics on this myself, I disagree with you on a number of points:
1. Placements: If you're simply saying that more than 50% of those who opt for placements at NLIU get into the Big 7 firms, then show me the figures. I know for a fact that the Big 7 firm recruit more than 50% of those who sit for placements from the NLUD (it had a smaller batch size than NLIU) and NLUJ (same batch size) so your numbers don't add up. Their placements are still better. NLIU also has a much lower average salary than the top 5 NIRF NLUs even if you argue that it may have proportionately higher placements figures. This goes to show that most people aren't placed in Tier 1 firms.
2. Mooting: While I agree that NLIU has recently been doing relatively well at moots, it's a bit of a stretch for you to say that it has been "far better" compared to NLUD, NLUJ and GNLU. Historically, NLUD has way more mooting achievements that NLIU and that's a fact in both international and national moots, and it's only behind NLS and NUJS (who are much older) in terms of big international moot wins. GNLU also won the MPL in 2017 and so has NLUJ. So why don't you explain your figures of NLIU's mooting superiority rather than trying to randomly put down other law schools?
3. So far as scholarships, etc. are concerned, NLIU is still way behind NLUD despite being much older and even GNLU. Maybe things are improving now but that is not reflective of the immediate ranking and will only show over the long term.
4. Going to a foreign law firm after having worked for a while in India is not the same as getting a Vac Scheme in your fourth year of law school so there is no comparison.
5. I don't want to comment on the faculty but clearly it isn't impressive enough for a top NIRF rank.
I hope that answers some of your ill-stated insinuations about NLIU's superiority over the younger law schools. This is not to say that NLIU is bad because it isn't, but with a 50% MP domicile quota and a NIRF rank that is in terminal decline, I doubt anyone in their right mind would choose it over the other top 6.
Source: https://www.legallyindia.com/lawschools/nlu-delhi-scores-100-final-2019-placements-exclusively-20-high-paying-big-laws-4-foreigns-17-in-house-20190609-10621
2. Would it be fair to say that NLIU has outperformed NLUD, GNLU, NLUJ and JGLS, when it comes to mooting, in the past 4 years? NIRF rankings are supposed to reflect the present situation of the college based on the data collected over the past 3 years.
3. I am not aware of any NLUD student getting either Rhodes or Chevening. Please let me know if the case is otherwise. As far as relatively lesser known scholarships are concerned, many NLIU students have got scholarships from Oxford, Cambridge, QMUL, Harvard, Leiden, etc.
4. I agree that the faculty is not star studded, neither does it have fancy publications. Now let me breakdown the marking criteria for the NIRF law school rankings to you (https://nirfcdn.azureedge.net/2019/framework/Law.pdf).
Teaching, Learning & Resources: 40%
Research & Professional Practice: 15%
Graduation Outcomes: 25%
Outreach and Inclusivity: 10%
Perception: 10%
TLR which accounts for 40% of the rankings is merely based on faculty qualifications, permanent faculty members and financial resources. NLIU takes a huge hit in this one. While partially being justified, NLIU also has many people as "guest" faculty who teach round the year but cannot be appointed as permanent faculty. For instance, an English qualified barrister teaches in NLIU as "guest" faculty as she does not have an LLM. A former Professor of Law of the University of Delhi who has previously taught at the University of Warwick and the National Judicial Academy also teaches as "guest" faculty because he is past 65 years of age. There are many such cases.
I will give you the 2nd point i.e. RP. NLIU faculty members have barely published anything recently, neither have they been involved in professional projects since the past couple of years.
GO: The rankings take into account the PG placements as well. NLIU in their document has stated their PG placements as 0% as NLIU does not have a placement cell for PG courses. This severely affects NLIU's rankings negatively. The rankings also take into account the number of students who finish the course in minimum stipulated time. It is tragic that over 33% NLIU students do not finish their course in 5 years. However this is not a reflection on the quality of these 33% students as many of them have PPOs from Big 7. It just happens that NLIU faculty members love failing. Back during my days in NLIU, it was pretty common for a certain economics teacher to fail over 75% of the batch in the very first trimester. The rankings also take into account the number of PhD students graduating. NLIU scores low on this count as well since very few people join the PhD course at NLIU. NLIU does not offer a part-time PhD, further reducing the course's attractiveness.
OI: As stated in a legallyindia post, NLIU is one of the few NLUs to have a healthy proportion of female students. However, this metric is beyond me since Symbiosis Pune (a private law school charging exorbitant fees) scores nearly 40% higher than NLIU on this count.
Perception: NLIU's perception is higher than that of GNLU and at par with IIT KGP
1. Read the placement numbers and count them again and you’ll see that 22/41 students have been placed in the big 7+foreign firms. That’s more than 50%, last I checked.
2. NLUD had a Rhodes Scholar in 2015 and also had atleast one Chevening Scholar who went to Cambridge. Google it.
3. It isn’t correct to say that NLIU has been far better even in the short term over the other law schools. Like I stated, GNLU won the MPL in 2017 and NLIU was far behind. You can check the final rankings yourself to see how much “better”. LIU really was. Barring Jessup and Vis, the rest of the moots are not considered very prestigious, either. NLUJ, GNLU and NLUD have better records in all of them over NLIU.
This should suffice to prove that you are wrong beyond doubt, number-wise and opinion-wise. Kindly research and fact-check before coming onto this site and commenting so authoritatively. It would help you in the legal field as well. :p
One more thing you should note is that the "Big 7" is not some official title of high-paying law firms and it was really only made up in the recent past in the LI comments sections. But, for the sake of argument, I'll put them ahead of the rest. JSA also has never recruited directly during Day Zero in almost all law schools (except maybe NLS, not sure though) and nowadays, it usually recruits only through PPOs after multiple internships. So, even it it's a part of the "Big 7", it isn't quite as accessible so far as Day Zeroes are concerned.
1. Breakdown of offers received by NLUD from Big 7+Foreign:
AZB:2
CAM:2
KCo:4
LnL:2
Trilegal:5
SAM:0
JSA:0
Foreign:4
Total:19
Where are you getting the figure of 22/41? 19/41 is 46% the last time I checked. So much for your claims about NLUD placing over 50% students with Big 7.
2. Let me now counter mooting achievements since 1st January 2017 by your own metric (Vis+Jessup World):
NLIU: Vis Vienna R16 (twice); Vis Vienna R64; Vis HK Semis; Budapest Winner; Malaysia Winner (Any person remotely associated with the Vis Moot knows that these two Pre-Moots are the biggest in Europe and Asia, seeing participation from 60-100 teams), Jessup World Quarters, Jessup World R32
NLUJ: Vis HK Quarters; Jessup World R16
GNLU: Vis HK Quarters; Vis HK R16; Jessup World R32 (So much for outdoing NLIU in Vis and Jessup lol)
NLUD: Vis Vienna R64 (twice); Vis HK R16 (twice)
NLIU has not only outdone these 3 colleges in Vis Vienna, Vis HK and Jessup World in terms of outround position in the past couple of years but also been more consistent in making it to the outrounds.
Getting a job at S&R and TT&A is equally rigorous, so I disagree with your arbitrarily predetermined metric of the Big 7 being indicative of quality of graduates. JSA doesn't recruit directly from campus anymore either so it's rarely even involved in Day Zero as far I am aware.
Why don't you show me the comparative stats for NLIU's 2019 batch placement, in any case, since you're an insider? I can't seem to find that anywhere. Might help back up your loud claims.
I am more than happy to agree that NLIU's recent moot performances are commendable. But with your logic, NLS and NALSAR have also failed to qualify for the Jessup World Rounds in the recent past. Does that make them a worse institution than NLIU? Or do you plan to counter that saying that since their placements history are far better so any mooting failures are forgiven?
Your argument isn't quite as effective to call yourself a better law school considering that even Jindal has gone to the finals of Vis Vienna and NLUO went till the semi-finals of Jessup. Obviously, the students of these institutions did a great job so no issues there. But would anyone rank either of them over the top 6 NLUs in terms of law school preference just because of a good performance in a one-off moot by one group of students? NLIU's overall performance might be improving recently, but that alone doesn't merit you calling it a better law school. It has never actually made a real mark in the MPL for the period that it ran from 2010-17, either.
Can you name even one person who would prefer NLIU over NLUD even if they are from MP - in fact, most MP people seem to love Bangalore, Hyderabad and Delhi? I don't think so. Again, this isn't to say that NLIU students are bad or that NLIU won't improve in the future but the other 3 law schools you're contesting with have exhibited, so far, much more consistency in terms of academic quality and achievements than NLIU.
I am assuming from your user name that you’ve actually graduated by 2019 (or maybe 2014). In either case, your comments read like something a first year law student would say to justify why his law school is the best.
Also, if I remember correctly, the MP government has a reservation policy of 50% even for professors at state institutions which is why you have so many NLIU grads in your faculty (a similar situation prevails at NUJS as well). Just an NLU degree is not a sign of quality in terms of teaching. So, your claims of NLIU's faculty quality are equally faulty and ill-understood.
You have subjectively interpreted all the cr*p that goes on in your law school and are acting as if it's not a big deal since there's some random positives here and there, like some one-off good mooting performances. The fact that NLIU's rank has actually decreased from an already very low one last year should be of serious concern for the NLIU admin and its students. Instead, people such as yourself are here trying to take a shot at some other law schools based on your own arbitrary metrics, while your own house is on fire.
Btw Kian, it appears you are choosing to mostly remain fluff with NKC and Co. I do not suggest that you witch hunt or run slanted pieces (which you kinda did on distance education). But why shy from asking the hard questions especially when the evidence is yet to be buried deep?
https://www.hindustantimes.com/education/iit-kharagpur-asks-faculty-not-to-write-on-topics-critical-of-government/story-G9CxcmHSLSyhr31BSlly6J.html
https://www.dailypioneer.com/2020/state-editions/nliu-starts----mazdoor-mitra----to-help-labourers.html
Why is LI only covering NLSIU efforts? These grassroots efforts are more helpful and long-term than silly PR stunts like chartered flights. The flights also risk spreading infections more and the migrants are now heading back anyway.
#SocialEngineeringHasGoneToRags
P.S. I'll pray that all of you feel the gratitude of pursuing an LLB degree in the first place
(if out of your own choice) rather than comparing your, pardon my language, respective genitalia.
I a, 99% sure who all are writing these posts. People marginalised once PIB left, including some not there any more.
In fact most of the articles on LI about NUJS over the last 5 years are overwhelmingly negative ones so its only to be expected that the NIRF ranking would be low. In case you still don't get it into your thick skull, moot court achievements are a very tiny part of a measure of how good a university is. Oxford has barely any presence in mooting (maybe NUJS wins more moots) so repeating a couple of moots like a spastic is not going to change ground reality.
I agree with what other comments have said about how shockingly bad both the physical infrastructure and the faculty quality at NUJS is. As someone who has judged the HSF moot in NUJS many times I know painfully well how hollow the "research centers" are. One only needs to look at the faculty movement to get a glimpse as to which is a law school they aspire to work in. So many leave NUJS to join NLUD, DU, NLS, MNLU. But does anyone come from NLUD, DU NLS(or even MNLU) to NUJS?? Is there anyone in the faculty who is not a mediocre bangali with limited career choices still left in the faculty? Among students, nearly all are NLS, NALSAR and AILET rejects and in future I see many NLUJ rejects joining them.
I congratulate the GOI for coming up with the best possible ranking (though there is scope for improvement). It validates many of the previous rankings that put NUJS at the 4-5 rank. I hope now the troll army of NUJS can give it a rest, knowing the sun does not shine out of a crack in their posterior.
You appear to have all the quality of a troll, so much so that you often contradict yourself because of your poor logic. By your own admission, multiple faculty of NUJS keep joining other institutions over the years. Well, genius, if they aren't good at all, because trolls like you had been claiming the downfall of this place since years, then how come other institutions accept them with open arms? As for your comment about the faculty who are here, it only shows petty jealousy on your part, nothing else. Regional hatred too, but that's par for trolls. By your own admission, you consider the ranking to be highly accurate. At the same time, you consider NUJS to be a pathetic place. A pathetic place which still, despite all the problems and an interim and unstable administration for the year judged, managed to be considered the 6th best law school in the country by that 'highly accurate' ranking. So, it proves that you are a highly stupid troll. Now that your troll tax has been paid, you can stop judging moots and actually do your job, assuming you have got any. Shoo.
And kudos on the comment about the spastics. You clearly indicated your education and upbringing by that single statement. You judging HSF moot? You aren't fit to enter the gates of any law school, you bigot! Do everybody a favor, if your claim is true, which nobody thinks is, then have the guts to refuse the invitation the next time around, citing this comment. Or are you too chicken to do that? As it is, you appear to have scraped though some dungheap yourself, and then have the gall to judge student and faculty quality of other institutions.
Looking at the NIRF parameters gives the following analysis,
a. Teaching and Learning (TLR): NUJS is way lower than the top 4 by 10 points and even NLUJ is 5 points ahead. The next two law schools have identical or higher TLR scores and only Jamia at #9 is lower than NUJS. Makes sense, considering the very small teacher student ratio, the lackluster faculty (I rate perhaps 5 out of 30 as average or above average, 1 as stellar). Compared to NLS, NALSAR, NLUD the faculty is simply no comparison. IIT's faculty is surprisingly sincere to a fault and well-accomplished, numbering 13 for a small intake of total 150 LLB students. As Guest55 mentioned above there are a couple of former NUJS faculty so this is an example of how truthful the point about faculty exodus is. NLUJ's faculty is not much better than NUJS qualitatively but they are much more insular and do not politicize issues as much as NUJS, factionism is absent there unlike NUJS with its infamous "Justice / Injustice Leagues that have been rampaging the university for years. The same goes for the building and campus, NUJS has the worst out of the top 50 law schools !
b. Research and Professional Practice: Again, nothing new. #5 downwards have close to nil research output. There used to be a child rights clinic in NUJS but the infighting shut it down. The huge gap between NUJS and the Big 3 is very much on display here.
c. Graduation Outcome: This is the qualitative placement / median income stat. Not much to choose (for now) between a NUJS, NLUJ and NLU Delhi. NLS Bangalore and NALSAR are rightfully way ahead as their graduating batches are diversifying and more sought after than the rest. This usually lags behind the other indicators so the current scores are more a reflection of where law schools were 5 years ago.
d. Outreach: Nothing to say here, everyone in the top 10 has a similar score, very low deviation coefficient.
e. Perception: Again, this lags behind the 'true' rank by a few years. NUJS is clearly out of the big league and the drop from last year suggests it's reputation is dwindling fast, for well-deserved reasons which readers have posted here somewhat harshly but accurately.
Overall a precarious 63.32 score, well within biting distance of SLS, Jamia and GNLU at 60. My prediction is that SLS and/or GNLU will overtake NUJS in the next 3 years.
Looks like there is a clear[b] Tier 1 now of NLS Bangalore, NALSAR and NLUD[/b]
[b]Tier 2[/b] of [b]IIT, NLUJ, NUJS, SLS and GNLU[/b]
[b]Tier 3 of Jamia, Patiala, Lucknow[/b] (can't remember the names, lol)
It is true that NUJS faculty publish less overall, at least compared to NLUD faculty. Plenty of quick studies about actual publications and not NIRF's very problematic methodology in this aspect have revealed the comparable publications with other NLU faculty at least. Even LI comments in past had provided that stats. All those who randomly claim otherwise lack any factual basis, which is why they don't provide any citations etc. of the other NLU faculty. As for infighting etc., that seems to be limited mostly to claims and tall tales in the comments section by a couple of trolls who keep repeating misinformation, half-truths in their familiar style by now.
Campus and infra I would admit are not as good as other NLUs, barring the excellent location. However, guess what, it gave me everything that I actually needed to study law and lead a decent life throughout 5 years. Sure, it could have been better.
About placements, this claim of students from other law schools being preferred over our students is absolutely rubbish. No factual basis whatsoever. Funnily, the trolls don't even say who prefers thus and prove it. Can't be Indian law firms, since they have been recruiting from us in the highest absolute numbers of all law schools over the past 5 years. Even LI posts reveal that. No other recruiter actually recruits in bulk from the NLUs, so proper comparison is difficult, though I think NLSIU students are ahead when it comes to foreign firms. But those firms never recruit more than 4 students or so from every batch anyway, and that too only from 3-4 NLUs. When it comes to scholarships and higher studies, no troll has ever cited any actual stats that shows our students and alumni are behind anyone else. Every year, the rolls of all Ivy League and well known foreign universities have NUJS alumni in them. I am not claiming that we are ahead of the others like NLSIU or NALSAR in this case, since I don't have their stats. But it is fairly comparable. NLUD students have never till date passed any of these law schools in any of these parameters. That's a fact. They are good students too, I'm sure. Eventually they might. They have a very real edge over all other law schools in UPSC for example. I have no problem giving credit where it is due.
In moots, student competitions, entrepreneurship, again, there is simply no stats that establish students from any other law school apart from perhaps NLSIU to be ahead of NUJS students. Only NLSIU has more international moot wins, actually.
The official website does suck, as does outreach and PR. I fully agree with that. However, that cannot be the reason why the very real achievements or student or faculty ability would be trolled, misrepresented, and outrightly lied about. Everyone seems to be an expert of judging how good faculty from other law schools are, which appears very strange to me. I mean, apart from two people, I have no idea how NLUD faculty in general are, for example. They have never taught me. And it is very easy to mark other people as bad anonymously even if I lack any qualification to judge, since there is no accountability or requirements to be truthful. My law school has taught me not to engage in such petty acts. Clearly, the trolls here have never been taught thus.
I hope Mr. Ganz actually reads this. For way too long, he has been allowing ready display of malice and hatred in this comments section in the name of free speech and quality discussions. He keeps saying that comments can be reported, but apart from actual abuse, he seems pretty much okay with everything else, even with very apparent deliberate hate campaigns against institutions by trolls who do not have a shred of evidence to offer to support their numerous claims. Often trolls even use their own past anon comments as actual proof, which is rather laughable. In order to do good work or learn law, it really doesn't matter what trolls speak about you anonymously, I agree. But these attempts have a distinctly unhealthy practice and rank smell in them nonetheless, of personal agendas and pitiful characters like the writers of anonymous hate mail.
I have never had many issues with LI posts about NUJS. They have often highlighted important issues, which is what media are supposed to address. However, the comments section has always been like a garbage bin for the past 7 years ever since I have come across it. Funnily enough, not a single one of these trolls who obviously feel very strongly against NUJS, seem to be willing to say that out in the real world. One wonders why, if it is not because of the fact that they would be immediately asked to show proof, or their underlying agenda would be exposed. I'm sure there will always be plenty of gossip mongers out there who are willing to give tips to Kian. However, the present policy might eventually ensure that most people with sense would stay away from the toxicity, thereby leaving this place more concentrated with douchebags. Something that's already been happening.
[...]
I trust you can agree that to assess a faculty its not a requirement to be taught by that faculty. I am active in the NGO and education sphere and personally know most of these faculty members and do make it a point to read what they publish (for the few who do) and talk to their students who intern with me.
To say there are "good people and bad eggs" everywhere is neither here nor there, it can be used to say NUJS and Yale are equal because YLS also will have bad eggs. Thank you for agreeing that NUJS faculty publish less overall. Actually that is an exaggeration. [...] of the NUJS faculty publications are nonsensical, most faculty members simply do not publish. I could name and shame at least ten of the faculty and their copy-paste tactics but that would be rude. If you want to counter me you can name the publications by each faculty in last 3 years. 50% have barely 1 or 2, often recycled projects of their students. I know this because I read most of the well known journal in India (I do not read Yale Law journal but I doubt I have missed anything).
This is a comparison off where the faculty got their doctoral degree (PHD).
NLUD (excluding VC, Dr. M.P. Singh and Dr. B.S. Chimni & others who are on deputation)
Yale - 2, Leicester - 1, Delhi University - 6, Oxford - 1, JNU - 2, Max Planck - 1, NALSAR - 1, MDU - 1, JMI - 1
Rohtak University - 1, Warwick - 1, Panjab University - 1, CSS - 1, Lucknow University - 1, Raj University - 1, Baroda University - 1, NLU Delhi - 2.
NUJS (excluding VC & others who are on deputation)
Oxford - 1, JNU - 1, Mysore University - 3, North Bengal - 3, Jadavpur University - 2, NLSIU - 1, NUJS - 8
The facts speak for themselves. To compare NUJS with NLUD is like comparing a district level sportsperson with a national level athlete.
Thank you for agreeing that NUJS campus and infra are "not as good as other NLUs". There is nothing further to be added. Even one-room basti can give you everything you need to study law throughout 5 years.
You have reacted [...] to placement info but I trust you agree that just getting placed in a firm like Luthra and Luthra or Trilegal is not a yardstick of measure. At the Tier 1 law school graduating students do not want to join these firms and that is why the associate ranks have very few from these Tier 1 law schools. It is only natural that employers will go to Tier 2 law schools like NLUJ, NUJS,Symbiosis.
Thank you for agreeing that official website, outreach and PR at NUJS "sucks". Actually there is a lot of negative PR which is based on incidents and allegations at NUJS over the years. Some of the famous incidents are dismissal of registrar in a scam, dismissal of VC after protest, dismissal of official for sexual offences, investigation into alumni-run distance courses, investigation into research centers, hollow journals publishing nonsense.At NLU Delhi there has been no such incidents.
[...]
So you don't need to be taught by teachers to figure out how they teach. Your claim that you talk to the students to figure that out can be a figment of your imagination, because there is actually no evidence of that. Not even your identity or your vaunted 'NGO and Education' sphere work. As for publications or PhD, please also do a study of the same for all the faculty of NLSIU, NALSAR etc. I said there are at least 10 decent faculty that I have come across during my time at NUJS, and I stand by my word. I don't really care which university they have done their PhD from. They helped me learn the subjects and enhanced my interest in legal studies and some of them even assisted me to build my career in their own way.
You actually read all the well-known journals in India? [...] Well, from what I remember of some comments just a year ahead, citations from NUJS faculty publications indexed in databases like Hein were actually far more than those from several other law schools that you mentioned. I won't name other law universities in a disparaging manner [...]. Some of the higher ranked NLUs actually had received pretty low marks in quality of faculty publications by the way, from last year's NIRF ranking.
Only [...] people like you would compare a functioning campus and hostel with a 'one-roomed basti'. [...]
As for NLUD's 'pristine scandal-free' past, don't make me laugh! There's one just today covered by LI, did you forget? Faculty have actually filed cases against the VC and the Registrar alleging maladministration. Female students have gone on record citing the campus to be an unsafe place. All of those have been covered by LI only, by the way. So [...] you should not have much trouble looking those up. At least at NUJS, people do face the penalties when it comes to sexual harassment instead of getting scot-free like some of the prominent alum from other NLUs who can be named here. But I would still say that NLUD is a decent place, with good students and good people. Because I do not believe isolated incidents reveal the entirety of an institution and I don't believe in trolling like you do. Every institution has its problems [...] like to focus on some more than others.
[...] By the way, if copy-pasted stuff gets your attention, I believe one of the other 'prominent NLUs' had copy pasted another's NAAC report some time back.
In essence, you lack any credential or locus to badmouth others. If you want to do it and be taken seriously, don't hide behind anonymity, say it out in the real world. By the way, since NUJS students are so sub-standard, how come you keep accepting interns from there to talk to? Don't people from your 'tier one' law schools want to work or talk with you? That's what happens when you keep making up lies, your account lacks consistency. Or does your work also not represent any yardstick of quality, just like those law firms you causally dissed, and almost everyone in which have actually achieved more than you in real life? For that gaffe, you get the rank of Troll number two, not Numero Uno. I am done paying your troll tax.
I agree some of the arguments had in the comments section can sometimes lead towards toxicity but at the same time I think that some of the discussions in this thread have actually been interesting and provide some useful information about institutions (if you ignore any personal attacks). Sure, often comments also sound like personal / ill-informed opinion, but usually those comments get disputed and disproven fairly quickly on their own merits. In this case, it does appear that Anonymous G's comments, for instance, were fairly honestly held and not unique either (though perhaps expressed more argumentatively and extremely than they could have been).
In my experience, these kinds of law school 'rivalries', if you want to call it that, flare up every few years in comments sections, particularly around CLAT time, but for the most part, most students or prospective students are not as parochial (although some element of college pride is certainly out there) and once people get it out of their system, things calm down a bit again for the rest of the year.
And at the end of the day, I hope that nothing in the comments section gets taken too seriously or personally either and everything needs to be read with a large grain of salt.
https://www.legallyindia.com/lawschools/government-s-nirf-university-rankings-to-be-released-tomorrow-20200610-11483
Sure, that may not be the conclusive final word, but it does show the opinion held by the commenter at least has some factual basis, and it's also one I've heard echoed by non-anonymous people out in the wild, so it's not too far fetched to believe it was at least in-part honestly held (even if there may also have been a hint of trolling involved).
On the other hand, saying all of X faculty are bad or whatnot is obviously hyperbole (though I'm sure many students of many institutions would make similar statements, while also acknowledging if pressed that there are exceptions and some good teachers too, at nearly all institutions).
However, in the bigger picture it is often acknowledged that Indian law schools and academia have historically not excelled at research, because most administrations have not made any strong push for it (with a few notable exceptions). That is perhaps gradually changing at some NLUs and maybe a few private schools. Nevertheless, while not 'trash', this is something that should be of concern to anyone interested in Indian legal academia (and yes, there is a now-quite-old and infamous 'research' paper that's kept doing the rounds from a certain NLU professor that could arguably meet the 'trash' standard, which is perhaps why hyperbole around this topic exists).
You keep saying you agree that trash talk about other institutions is not good or right. Which begs the question, why do you allow it to begin with? What good purpose does it serve? The very fact that one particular faculty's bad work is being used to target an institution, whereas I daresay scores of similar other people in the other NLUs are being ignored conveniently, does not seem like an agenda to you? Probably it doesn't. By all means, let people extol the virtues of NLUx for their good performance in one year. But why should people be allowed to push their agenda by bringing other institutions down? Count the number of constructive criticism in this entire comments thread. You will find it's in single digit I believe, if that.
I am not trying to demean any law school but it's simply a fact that NUJS has a relatively poor score in research in the NIRF this year. Rather than finding a hundred excuses for that, why don't you accept it and let it go and focus on improving?
If you don't want to "get trolled", then why are you even reading all these comments (since most of them are in the realm of unrealistic extremes anyway)? And while there is quite a bit of NUJS-bashing in the comments section this time, it might be because of the perception that NUJS students and alumni have carved for themselves on this website by condescending on every other law school who they felt was behind them. This happens to many other law schools as well. I recall hundreds of condescending comments around 5-6 years back when NLUD was on the rise, including crap on how it was rigging moots, crap placements etc. This has also been the case with other law schools like GNLU and NLUJ as well. No one appeared to raise a voice then but suddenly, everyone seems to be emotionally scarred by the LI comments section. Maybe you should grow a thicker skin when you come down to the comments section to voice your view rather than to ask the admin to censor everything that goes against one particular law school. If the tables were turned, and NUJS were ranked in the top 3, I can imagine the kind of chest-thumping all you guys would be doing in the comments section. Give it a break.
And while I doubt any prospective law students might read these comments to affect their law school choice (even though they may well be made aware of the NIRF ranking), it's safe to say that many of these comments are quite sensible enough to warrant non-censorship of free speech (even if it's only an opinion not backed by facts). If you don't like it, then downvote it (or report it) and move on. Enough with this over-sensitivity of facing hard truths.
Regarding your research point, what exactly is poor research score? Sure, NUJS seems to have scored lesser than NLSIU, NALSAR and NLUD in that metric this year, but all these four places have got marks within 10 points of each other. As compared to that, IIT has scored almost 28 points more than any NLU in that metric. Are you saying that all NLU faculty are stupid and don't do research and only IIT people do any? For once, have a consistent argument!
Regarding your other points about NUJS alumni bragging in the comments section, or claiming that their university is better than others, that's either a misconception or a lie depending on your motivation. On the contrary, people keep saying lies and bad stuff about the institution, and others counter those at some stage. I dare you to show me a single comment in the past one year of posts where anything else has happened. I don't think it is an unrealistic expectation not to have people anonymously ooze venom against your institution, perhaps even with hidden agendas.
Finally, with your claim about alumni saying bad things about NUJS, pray what gave you the idea that the people trolling are alumni? What ridiculous assumptions!
As someone 8 years into academia I find this comment absurd. Doctoral studies are the most important years in the training of any would-be teacher. Both the institute of study as well as the thesis are serious indicators of qualification. The standards, the quality, the doctoral committee and the peer group at good universities ensure that average / poor candidates wash out very quickly. I did my Ph.D. research from a Sutton 13 university in the U.K. and it was a well known fact that the bottom quarter of doctorates awarded in my cohort would never get approved at Oxbridge. Getting a thesis defended at Yale is so far removed from (for example) NUJS that a comparison is laughable. Doctorates from places like NUJS or NLU-D are worth very little in terms of achievement or quality.
The content of a thesis is obviously important but the rigorous nature of doctoral study programs at top universities is simply not comparable with Indian NLU-model law schools. Close to anyone who clears the Ph.D. admission test is guaranteed to get one in a few years barring personal feuds with supervisors or domestic issues. On average a thesis from a good university is much superior to one from an NLU. I have also found that even the much reviled "Traditional Universities" are more rigorous in their Ph.D. programs than NLUs (specifically barring NLS and NALSAR).
The data published above also indicate a striking divergence between the faculty of NLU-D and NUJS not only in quality but also in diversity. The former has faculty who have as doctoral alma mater, 18 different institutions while the other has 7. A total of 11% of the NLU-D faculty did their doctorates internally. At NUJS this figure is 48% (and 70% from universities in West Bengal). I do not want to speculate too much but such numbers are deeply worrying as an index of faculty quality and display a homogeneity that is usually actively avoided by responsible universities. At least in the U.K. such a proportion would immediately lead to an investigation by Universities UK followed by a visit from a team from the All-Party Parliamentary University Group within the year.
I also take exception to the vapid generalization that "Any academic worth their salt knows that there are numerous reasons why Indian academics choose/are forced to do their PhDs from the places that they work in". As an academic myself I can state that this is simply not true. PhD candidates may occasionally be teaching assistants for a term but no reputable university will recruit in such large numbers from its own outgoing doctoral cohorts. I have firsthand knowledge of this from TISS, Allahabad University and ILI (in total I spent 3 years in research at these places). If NUJS chooses to do so it can only be due to a severe dearth of candidates or some horrendous management.
Again I do not mean to cast aspersion on NUJS as a law school but if the data on the doctoral backgrounds as published above is correct, it does show a very poor mix of faculty as compared to NLU-D.
[I am using my second family name (initial in India) so those active in academia will know me]
As for your other point about NUJS recruiting from its doctoral candidates, it is actually not accurate. All the people who have done such doctorates had already been recruited in permanent positions at university from what I have been told (Actually I inquired about it after my first comment as a matter of curiosity). I confess that I do not know any of them barring one, and that person could have done his PhD from anywhere in the world, given the quality of his thesis. However, getting a long leave from a new job, shifting countries and other responsibilities are factors that did not allow him to do so. This person from what I'm aware of is well respected by all students, colleagues and people from other institutions too. Therefore, it is very clear that there are other reasons apart from quality centric issues for such decisions. [...]
About the issue about PhD from 'local colleges', there were just as many of those in the NLUD list. [...] Doing your thesis from an institution that you are employed in is often a practical decision more than anything else. That is separate from doing one's PhD from other places and then joining. Treating the two alike isn't going to give anyone the real picture. As for your point about UK, again, that's only applicable when the university employs such people after their PhD. I do not believe any institution in the world prohibits their employees to pursue PhD from their employer. If you are aware of such places from your academic experience, please do share. I'll be glad to learn.
No university that has any pretension of standing allows their faculty (even tenured) to enrol in [b][i]any[/i][/b] of their academic programs. Leave aside Oxbridge, this is the policy even at Durham, Manchester, Leeds, Surrey, Nottingham, etc. It's the same in Germany and the Netherlands and I would be surprised if American universities were different.
It's tricky for the university since such faculty members will be working closely with or under the senior dons who will be expected to double-up as their thesis committee members or even supervisors. This has the possibility of undue influence as these candidates could have advantages / disadvantages compared to candidates who are not on the faculty. A negative comment, refusal of funding or observation could strain the working relationship and disrupt the (usually small) departments. In any case, candidates in academic programs are barred from faculty discussions, planning and fraternizing. Allowing someone to concurrently be both creates plenty of potential conflicts and the practice is predictably a strict no-no. This is one of the basic tenets of integrity in the academic process.
There is also the issue of homogeneity. Every university in the U.K. has its own unique culture and thought-process, they all look to export this to other places instead of perpetuating it internally. The Deans also recognize that infusion of ideas and styles from outside is healthy.
For the faculty in question doing so is equally hazardous. Not all of the thesis committee are senior old professors. There will be younger, even nontenured faculty and this can, once again create avoidable tension and influence. While a post-doc, I knew some of the younger faulty members and none had aspirations of enrolling in a Ph.D. (or any other degree) from the university.
Under these circumstances I am forced to repeat my earlier conclusion - that a university (like NUJS in this case) where half the teachers are (or were) its own Ph.D. candidates, has serious credibility and management issues (over and above the homogeneity and diversity issues).
Your understanding of the process is deficient.
Universities do not hire from their own outgoing Ph.D. cohort upon graduation. The newly minted doctorate holders have to complete a post-doc elsewhere (about 2 to 3 years) and then spend 2 to 5 years as junior faculty before being eligible for hire at their alma mater. Even in such cases it is unusual if not unprecedented to have more than a quarter (25%) of the faculty from such alumni (occasionally relaxed for senior dons above 65 or 70 who have finished with a career in law or government).
My comment on the weak institutional processes at NUJS is based on the fact that half of their faulty are their own former doctoral candidates, presumably hired in-situ (meaning lacking in any experience teaching in any other university). I have some knowledge of Indian universities but this is a worryingly large percentage and as I commented before, is likely due to a dearth of candidates, bad management or both. I note that the original comment on this specified NLU Delhi as having 11% alumni. That is a much lower number and qualitatively suggests it is a superior institution (on this limited parameter).
I do not have information on the causes for this dichotomy. For existing faculty to be allowed to enrol in the doctoral program in such large numbers suggests a total absence of academic integrity in the program (this does not happen in the Europe or the US, please provide an illustration if you aware of exceptions). To hire and keep on tenure (or non-tenure) alumni in such large numbers (specifically doctoral alumni) again suggests deep institutional flaws in governance and a degree of indifference that is unconscionable.
Condoning such practices on the grounds that this is common or is not prohibited by law (as someone has posted below) is irresponsible, disingenuous and lazy. The easiest ways to raise standards is to stop or discourage such practices. If not done sufficiently early it can result in an entire generation or more of faculty with questionable credentials (for reasons see my earlier comment) and an insular approach to both scholarship and education.
Migrants get flown by mediagenic AirAsia flights. Btw did you know that AirAsia (at least in India) insists that pilots prioritize fuel efficiency while landing the plane over passenger safety? That it's HR policies result in stressed pilots? And we all know what was happening earlier at AirAsia...that somehow got swept under the carpet with Mistry exit.
As they say no one questions a hero.
[quote]In what must certainly be the greatest achievement for this blog ever since its inception in 2005, Sai Deepak’s incisive analysis in a previous post was cited extensively by the Madras High Court in the latest Bajaj vs TVS round.
[/quote]
https://spicyip.com/2009/05/bajaj-vs-tvs-sai-deepak-cited-by-judge.html
https://livelaw.in/news-updates/delhi-labour-minister-directs-nlu-delhi-to-reinstate-housekeeping-staff,-university-says-matter-pertains-to-contractor-&-not-university-158439
https://livelaw.in/news-updates/delhi-hc-issues-notice-in-plea-challenging-domicile-reservation-for-delhiites-in-nlu-delhi-158438
https://www.barandbench.com/news/litigation/delhi-hc-issues-notice-in-plea-by-students-of-national-law-university-delhi-against-50-horizontal-reservation-to-delhi-based-candidates
But Kian wouldn't report on these. This is not about being a crusading journo or doing motivated pieces against law school satraps. But a consistent pattern is emerging - don't ask hard questions. The spirit of inquiry is missing.
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EatEJ6wUMAAruB6.jpg[/img]
[Ed: Unconfirmed]
1. Least incentive: NLSIU has topped 3 years in a row and calls itself Harvard of the East. Why should they give any info which suggests that they may not be the best? Similarly, NLUD has been #2 and ahead of NALSAR. We have also been told that NLUD has many NLU alumni faculty. Why will they want scrutiny? Also, NLUJ is delighted at having defeated NUJS. Why risk divulging info that endangers them?
2. Most incentive: NALSAR considers itself equal to NLSIU, possibly better. They are quite upset that NLUD keeps outranking them. They think NIRF is making a mistake and want the true data. Also, NUJS and NLIU are unhappy with their rank. Some claims are made about their placements and faculty, but their official websites have no info, so a neutral source like LI will help their case if they are right.
[Ed: comment reported as likely troll. Proceed with caution]
https://thewire.in/rights/covid-19-lockdown-law-students-help-underprivileged-during-lockdown
Kudos to NLS Bangalore, RML Lucknow, NALSAR, NLU-Delhi for supporting the migrants in this hour of crisis. Once more, they live up to the NIRF ranking as being the top 3 law schools in India.
1. The IIT tag helps. IIT KGP's strengths are that it is the oldest IIT, campus is the biggest, alumni are very famous etc. They probably send NIRF brochures with all this info.
2. The students are all nerdy engineers and the overall IIT managements is super strict. No protests or dissent, so no negative publicity ever leaks out. Some of the IITs have even banned Ambedkar-Phule study groups. Contrast that with NLUs.
3. The batch size is very small, which means a good student faculty ratio. Also easy to get 100% placements with such a small batch. Also, students are all BTech graduates and some have prior internship or full work ex, so they probably mention that.
4. The recruiters are mostly tech companies seeking in house patent advisors, like Microsoft, Huawei, Wipro, Samsung etc. The pay is smaller than CAM or SAM, but NIRF probably gets impressed by names of these big companies. Who has heard of CAM barring a small elite circle?
5. The physical infrastructure is decent for a small law school, but remember that it is in a bigger campus with massive infrastructure.
6. I think each one of their profs has taught at an NLU before and has a PhD. Also, some engineering profs from other departments teach classes on patents. If these people are added to their faculty then NIRF will be impressed.
https://www.nliu.ac.in/faculty-and-research/faculty/faculty-on-contract/
https://www.facebook.com/NLUaurangabad/photos/professor-vinod-kumar-dixit-has-a-long-teaching-career-in-jurisprudence-law-and-/1347842138654611/
NLIU 2021 batch placements (21 PPOs) thus far is unlikely to be released on LegallyIndia before Day 0 (whenever that happens) or the end of the academic year. No college in the country releases their PPO figures before Day 0.
Behold my coming, NLS
A maverick has stepped in
And on my Oxbridge portfolio
I promise you acche din!
_
Follow me and you shall see
together we can bring
Glory back to this campus
An NIRF-QS ranking
_
And we have a money problem, guys
Our budget’s a little lean
We need to make some changes here
No more ‘lit’ nagarbhavi scenes
_
I will lock up your classroom
And patrol that sweet LC :)
Don’t wanna stay in your room?
Go to the library!
_
With your painful timetables
It sure makes a lot of sense
To have you play some morning sports
(mandatory attendance)
_
I got reforms too, homies
This ED I will rename
Split it up for efficiency
Ghost you, they will, the same
_
And stop with them mail threads you guys,
They give us all too much BT
(To dodge your mails, I already have
An ED, UGC :P)
_
(FYI: these threads too are a thing of past
Y’all can’t send a cross-batch thing
Your cohorts are all left aghast
Coz Big Brother is watching)
_
Let’s talk about the ‘big deal’ at hand
This thang, “COVID-19”
Issa phase guys, it will pass
Not the worst I’ve seen
_
But trust my gut, for I
know all about this jazz
it’s in no way more pressing than
your day-zero placement stats
_
To keep you on your toes through this
Online classes are all set
There should not be any issue
(if you got internet ;)
_
I forgot you need library access, so
To ease your academic plight
I’ll let you have 25 random pages
Apologies for the Oversight
_
For a change don’t whine about this
Let us talk some sense
For all your issues, put all your hope
On a single assurance
_
And trust me on this when I say
We don’t need a Pass/Fail grade
A grueling job for your mental health
Is a worthy trade-off made
_
And since we have to conduct CLAT, I guess?
(I don’t really know when or how,
With this quarantine haze
I will give BT for now)
_
You may say this is too random
That I’m not acting logically
But I’ll have you know I am
Thinking pedagogically.
_
So, don’t you think that I don’t know
About all your little scams
I’ll not let you pull one on me
With them “take-home” exams
_
Okay fine, I guess this time you win
Can’t have ‘online exams’ I guess
BCI says we don’t really need to rn
But we’ll have them nonetheless
_
With a foolproof set of rules, we frame
With your constructive comments
Lol jk idc ‘bout dem
PFA Guidelines – with no amends
_
8 hour papers? Impossible word caps?
You think all that is on me?
Meh. Can’t help you; Can’t mess with that
“teacher autonomy”
_
Oh, trust me, none of this will be,
To your detriment
Except your lost faith in authorities
Your grades, your mental health
_
I know that admin indifference
Is leaving you depressed
But this is what you get, dear kids
For your FAC-ing protest
_
But tbh, I feel you guys
Its been a helluva ride
But desperate times call for desperate measures
Can you let this trim slide?
_
I mean I know you’re pissed at me
I come off as headstrong
I just want what’s best for you
I don’t mean you no wrong
_
Less than a year old here and I’m stuck
Conducting an online trimester
Really appreciate your co-operation, folx :)
We’re all in this together
_
Your bravery and effort, I am proud of,
Your work ethic – “irrepressible”
Your spirit unwavering, dealing with this
Diligence – commendable.
_
Non obstante, this trim has been
SO GODAWFUL AND HECTIC
These policies too, in retrospect
Have been comically chaotic quixotic.
_
Are you a TLC man?
Mark my words: These will be the people who will decide the future of NUJS in the next 10 years.
https://www.facebook.com/KABIRSHANKARBOSE/
[quote]As a national law university, NUJS is known for its culture of research and knowledge development - for instance, students and faculty of NUJS regularly publish in top notch international journals and international exchange students pick NUJS as a top destination to learn Indian law. NUJS attracts speakers and visiting faculty of the highest calibre, such as former-president Abdul Kalam, Nobel Prize winners such as Joseph Stiglitz and Dr. Amartya Sen, Professor Upendra Baxi, Dr. Shashi Tharoor and Dr. Prakash Karat, Justice Altamas Kabir, judge of the Supreme Court of India.[/quote]
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/06/17/nujs-profile/nujs-profile.pdf
https://www.barandbench.com/news/call-to-aid-nlsiu-alumnis-serving-the-shramiks-provides-support-to-migrants-go-home-covid-19-crisis
Reminds me of this https://www.legallyindia.com/home/nujs-showcases-arms-length-from-idia-after-student-volunteers-get-beaten-up-by-goons-00011130-8767
So many considerations went into that distancing - PIB and Co distaste for Shamnad; keeping TMC in good humour etc. Of course very different considerations were at play while allowing and minting off from illegal distance educations courses.
For both NLUD and NUJS, closer scrutiny of the role of "role model" faculty members with "NLU" education raises prickly questions -
1. Their deafening silence despite bleeding hearts et al in classrooms and corridors. In NUJS at least these role model teachers have "permanent" jobs.
2. Their complicity in sustaining, promoting and profiting off corrupt administrations
3. Abusing trust of students to sell them out to the corrupt administrators or stall/dilute student action
4. Projecting themselves as voices of sanity and reason to offer false dilemmas to students and kill of protests and meaningful inquiries
5. Acting as brokers for a corrupt administration to manipulate student action in ways that certain factions benefit and thereby discredit the student association as whole.
Then again, are students really that dumb? I guess not. Quite a few correctly identify these "role models" as necessary for padding up CVs, gaming test scores etc. To paraphrase Patal lok - the system isn't broken, it efficiently replaces people who do not "fit". And hence the state of student associations across NLUs - whether they are Harvard, Yale, Stanford etc (of East)
If anyone has been tracking SM and reading between the lines then reasons for acquiring saffron robes is quite revealing. Nothing sanyasi, tyaagi or altruistic.
For VB please contact his mates and seniors from "law school" and certain faculty member of NUJS esp from the founding years. Cannot guarantee that they will spill the beans right away. Atmospherics have changed. Personal profits are at play. Getting in touch with folks in Calcutta HC, esp those who knew VB from his early days in the court may also give you a good understanding of this "Precious"
Btw are you sure VB was never "approached" by Noojies? Participation in fluff webinars and discussion sessions (as part of a visit to Calcutta) not included. And while you are at it please check the other political streams he swum in before dipping into holy Ganga. May find something "Scindic" despite his Indic rhetoric
This may all sound "personal" But it isn't. SM and VB are politically savvy and have built successful legal practices. They have also helped build careers and lives of many juniors etc at an individual level. But please do not project them and others (or for that matter anyone) as hallowed creatures who rarely, if ever, go human.
SJA needs to think and act "politically" without being the pedestrian political fare. The only side that should matter to SJA is its own side - maximizing student welfare and interests with minimum politics of the external variety. Rainbow welcome. No monochrome.
We are all eagerly waiting May 2021 when a new regime of educated and qualified people come to power and the EC changes.
https://www.anandabazar.com/state/who-will-be-the-chief-minister-when-bjp-comes-to-power-1.1165526?ref=home-editorial-choice-stry-small-image-3
You can paste into Google Translate.
[img]https://gumlet.assettype.com/barandbench%2F2020-06%2Fc24b14df-76e3-412d-ad55-4dfaae8a159b%2F277BBA16_82EB_422A_B6EC_A1560670D2FB.jpeg [/img]
https://www.barandbench.com/columns/when-in-doubt-webinar
[/b]
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/58249106.cms
[quote]Students of three National Law Universities (NLUs) ) are together driving a movement seeking the Institutes of National Importance (INI) status...The student associations of the three NLUs will now attempt to get all students, vice-chancellors, the Bar Council of India and the HRD Ministry on board.[/quote]
One more thing, exactly why couldn't NUJS do the same thing? Isn't one of their usual bragging statements about how the CJI is their Chancellor? What stopped their alums from going for such underhanded measures to ensure their "institutional integrity"?
https://telegraphindia.com/states/west-bengal/court-fines-bjp-for-fault-in-nephew-case/cid/1319229
https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/goldman-arm-buys-varsity-s-hostel-facilities-11591812366395.html
1) Each students pays JGLS 8 lakhs a year in tuition + hostel services.
2) JGLS will now take around 5 lakhs for tuition only, Goldman will take the remainder.
3) In exchange, Goldman has given JGLS a one-time payment infusion of Rs 900 crore.
4) JGLS can use this money to upgrade infrastructure or buy land elsewhere for a small satellite campus, e.g. in Delhi or Mumbai.
It's actually a very creative way to get funds. Even NLUs can emulate it and get a large cash infusion.
Kian, you should do a story.
While you are at it, can you dig further on this https://livelaw.in/lawschool/news/hnlu-launches-lex-osmose-online-courses-158670 especially given the controversies involving NUJS and iPleaders and also at GNLU, which you had reported earlier.
https://www.telegraphindia.com/calcutta/coronavirus-lockdown-a-month-later-online-classes-still-a-struggle/cid/1782539
https://www.telegraphindia.com/calcutta/kids-left-on-their-own-to-fight-device-issues/cid/1782286
Kian, please publish your next headline: "NLSIU resists domicile quota and plans LLM-MBA course with IIM"
Below is the ranking.
1. NLSIU
2. GNLU
3. Symbiosis Pune
4. RMLNLU
5. BHU
6. NLUO
7. RGNUL
8. ILS
9. Bhartiya Vidyapeeth
10. Lucknow University
Full issue here:
https://specials.intoday.in/pdf-issues/it/India-Today.pdf.