NLSIU sacks alum prof & student-admin diplomat post rape-curfew talks

Chauhan: Threw the kitchen sink
Chauhan: Threw the kitchen sink
Breaking & exclusive: NLSIU Bangalore faculty and alumnus Sidharth Chauhan was yesterday dismissed from service, little over a month after he wrote to vice-chancellor (VC) R Venkata Rao criticising his non-consultative manner of imposing a 9pm ban on opening the law school gates.

Chauhan, who was a visiting faculty at NLSIU since July 2011, was appointed by way of a temporary contract the terms of which allowed the administration to relieve him at any time without stating reasons.

He received an email from the administration yesterday afternoon summarily ending his contract, with one month’s notice. 28 February will be his last day on campus.

“I was a bit surprised. Generally there has been a culture of dialogue and discussion at NLS,” said the 2008 NLSIU graduate adding, “I have been the first one [to have been relieved] for criticising the VC.”

He told Legally India that in addition to his letter critical of the manner of imposing a curfew on campus, he had also opposed Rao’s leadership style, including his allegedly top-down interference in faculties’ evaluation of their courses and the dwindling number of faculty meetings.

He said that as opposed to the previous system of weekly faculty meetings, there had been only three meetings in the whole of last year – two in connection with the incident of alleged rape of an NLSIU student near campus in October, which was the reason for instating the curfew.

“I just threw the kitchen sink at them. To be fair, if somebody criticises them directly and personally, they have a right to [let him go],” he said. “But given that the NLS model is being copied by others [we need to evolve better systems]. Criticism and dialogue is part of our daily routine and we’ve had far serious disagreements in the past.”

“What is holding us back is leadership which is stuck in the slightly hierarchical style,” he added.

Curfew & discipline

On 13 December Rao, two months after the alleged rape, had warned students’ parents in a letter that “disciplinary measures such as issuing of warnings, imposition of fine, suspension from Hostels, and suspension from classes and dismissal from the University” would be taken against students found violating his 27 November order instating a 9pm curfew on campus.

He had also warned of leopards and rising crime rates in Bangalore, and that students “resisting this good initiative of the University for the safety of the students” by way of going on strike, will face serious action and that their parents should be “mentally prepared for the consequences”.

Chauhan responded on the same day in an emailed open letter to Rao, copied in to all faculty and students.

“While the belated attempt to reach out to parents is appreciated, some of the language in the said letter is downright embarrassing, especially since it is coming from the head of the institution….”

“Initial queries with some attendees in the EC [executive council] meeting have revealed that there was no definitive vote or agreement on the reduction of the curfew time. Furthermore, there was no agreement on the same in the faculty meeting that had preceded the EC meeting. Hence, this is a decision that can be clearly attributed to yourself and Prof. Nagraj [NLSIU’s registrar] (since he voiced the proposal to start with) in a personal capacity.”

Trying to persuade Rao for an open student-and-faculty meeting with the administration on the issue, he wrote: “Using threats of disciplinary action is likely to be as counterproductive as the initial proposal for reducing the curfew time. There is still time to prevent the situation from getting out of hand.

“There are bound to be disagreements and tensions in the working of any institution. It is always a far safer strategy to tackle such disagreements through an open dialogue instead of continuously avoiding difficult questions.”

Losing game?

A final year student of the college speculated that owing to Chauhan’s popularity with the student body his exit was deliberately timed to coincide with NLSIU’s current vacations, adding that it was “a huge loss not for [Chauhan] but for the institute”.

Chauhan commented: “In terms of attracting people to teach, I don’t think he [the VC] knows that there is a market for law teachers as well.”

Rao today told Legally India that Chauhan’s dismissal was a decision of the executive council, but the VC was not available for further comment at the time of going to press due to an ongoing meeting.

Chauhan’s exit leaves only three NLSIU alumni currently teaching at the college: 1999 graduate and associate professor Sarasu Esther Thomas, 1998 graduate and visiting faculty Aditya Sondhi, and 2008 graduate Neha Mishra who joined in 2012.

Door policies

The administration met NLSIU’s student bar association (SBA) on 13 January to negotiate the curfew timing after the SBA wrote to the VC on 17 December. The SBA alleged a consultative deficit with students and parents and misrepresentation of facts to parents in the 13 December notification, such as citing the presence of leopards on campus.

The SBA had pushed for entry into the campus until 12:30am, and exit until 10pm, subject to checking identity cards at the gate.

A member of the SBA told Legally India that in the 13 January meeting, the administration extended lglthe curfew timing by an hour, to 10pm. However, unlike the 27 November notification about the lowered curfew timing, there has been no official notification about the extension granted on the 13th yet.

Click here to read a copy of Chauhan’s open-letter email to the administration

Comments

Lord D 1 Feb 2013, 06:24
+6 -7
I think this problem of VCs who stick to imposing hierarchy forcefully is becoming a major problem for law schools and colleges in India, at large. Specific examples being NLS and NUJS. While DU students may not face problems relating to independence, the students would certainly benefit from a culture of research being fostered. If I were Siddharth, I'd send an email today to Prof. Ranbir and MP Singh - NLU Delhi, that's going to become the place to be.
NLU D Student 1 Feb 2013, 19:18
+17 -5
Considering the reasons for the unfortunate termination of Mr. Chauhan, I'd like to add the situation in NLUD is far far worse than the one at NLS. And I'm not talking about the curfew timings (which are also embarrassingly cautious).

It's a one man regime here with Ranbir Singh. No faculty opinions, no student bodies like the SBA. Hell the student body is called Vice Chancellor's Student Council. The administration is as worse as it can get.
Agreed! 4 Feb 2013, 12:21
+2 -2
"As desired by the vice chancellor...."
aaa 1 Feb 2013, 06:49
+5 -1
The statement regarding the number of alumni teaching is inaccurate. Please verify that for a complete list of teachers. I don't believe Aditya Sondhi still teaches as well.
Murali 1 Feb 2013, 06:53
+5 -75
Good Job Sidhharth. Great use of Legally India to get cheap publicity. Give them an "EXCLUSIVE BREAKING NEWS."
kianganz 1 Feb 2013, 07:30
+28 -3
We don't really comment extensively on sources, but the tip-off here actually came from a student upset about the news, rather than faculty...
Apar Gupta 1 Feb 2013, 10:58
+6 -3
How is this cheap publicity ?
Truth 1 Feb 2013, 07:12
+8 -13
Hey, lets be clear here. 9 pm curfew sounds fair and reasonable!! And whats wrong even if the Director made this decision unilaterally without a beaurocratic process? Think of the beginings of NLS and NUJS when the Director/VC handled affairs with full grip! But shameful that Sidharth is sacked! Proves again that you need a great head to be able to retain a resourceful talent! Exercising power should be coupled with the capacity to convince the world why one is right!
Guest 1 Feb 2013, 07:26
+0 -2
Is there anything to suggest that the reason for the termination is what all are asusming it to be? (I agree that the circumstances all point that way: but anything from the administration on whether it has any reasons?)
Amlan 1 Feb 2013, 07:50
+21 -3
If they were using the 'Course Evaluation Feedback Forms' as a basis for termination, students would not be up in arms. Sidharth is undoubtedly one of the best teachers we have at the moment and has always received good feedback from students.

You tell me then - given this fact, what other reason could there be but his criticism of the higher echelons and their incoherent ways?
sss 1 Feb 2013, 08:00
+6 -37
The decision has been taken by the apex decision making body that is the executive council. I don't think executive council will pay a damn attention to these silly excuse. He must have done something grave and detrimental to the interest of the institution and thereby inviting such harsh step from the administration.
Also the facts regarding the alumni teaching at NLSIU is not correct. The faculty directory shows a number of graduates and postgraduates teaching at NLS. The story appears to be biased and concocted.
What you sow is what you reap!
NLS - Student 1 Feb 2013, 18:02
+24 -1
The faculty directory is utterly outdated. Neha Mishra and Sarasu Thomas are the only ex-NLS regular faculty members. You possess some strange utopian idea of the executive council of NLS; by a large majority, they're non-academic, politically motivated and completely detached from the workings of the institution. While in first year, we received members of the EC for important functions who asked us whether this was a 5 year course, what the difference between NALSAR and NLS was, and had warped ideas of Law School life based on hearsay. At the EC-SBA meeting following the incident last year, the questions directed towards student office bearers were of an insensitive and narrow-minded nature regarding the victim. Not only do the EC members, by and large, have a completely different perspective than NLS students (or most other national law university students), they also lack any concrete vision for the institution which is not based on self-aggrandizement.
Unfortunately, this means that those appointed in the administration are also not in tune with the founding principles and standards of NLS. NLS was never supposed to be just another decent law school, it was meant to set the standard for legal practice founded in the strong social awareness of the students and faculty. That idea of NLS is fast disappearing. Students only do so much out of individual motivation or out of respect to their seniors, stories of ex-law schoolites and the idea of NLS. They simply don't have the teachers you expect in the premier law school. Chauhan was one of the last widely respected teachers in NLS. Teachers, barring the extreme few, do not contribute to students' motivation in NLS and are quite mediocre. You can't ever expect stunning teachers all around you at a state-funded Indian law school; but the situation in NLS is quite dire considering it's reputation and student body.
All Prof. Chauhan did was ask for an inclusive and consultative process in decision making while raising valid concerns about the manner in which decision were taken. The administration interpreted this as a challenge to authority. Law School is a theatre of the absurd when it comes to administration and faculty.
NLSIU Student 1 Feb 2013, 08:18
+10 -50
I think its a good thing he was sacked. He was deliberately instigating students to protest against the administration. Doing this was denuding the scholastic culture of NLS. Its high time people realise that NLS is a college and the students are there to study and not be pawns and foot soldiers in personal agendas of a few people like Siddharth Chauhan.
Guest 1 Feb 2013, 08:50
+25 -5
Prof. Chauhan was one of the best teachers we've had. Firing him does more damage to the scholastic culture of NLS than anything else. Besides that protesting against the high handed nature of the administration does nothing to denude said scholastic culture, especially considering the fact that teachers who consistently do a terrible job are allowed to keep their posts provided that they remain subservient to the administration, with requests and petitions from the students for their removal being for the most part ignored. And "pawns and foot soldiers in personal agendas of a few people like Sidharth Chauhan"?! That's rich. Anyone who's ever to him would know that his only "personal agenda" is to improve the slowly falling standards of the college, caused in no small part by the arbitrariness of the administration.
Ex-NLSIU student 1 Feb 2013, 09:02
+30 -12
[quote name="NLSIU Student"]I think its a good thing he was sacked. He was deliberately instigating students to protest against the administration. Doing this was denuding the scholastic culture of NLS. Its high time people realise that NLS is a college and the students are there to study and not be pawns and foot soldiers in personal agendas of a few people like Siddharth Chauhan.[/quote]

Are you an LLM?
XYZ 2 Feb 2013, 03:04
+2 -12
[quote name="Ex-NLSIU student"]
Are you an LLM?[/quote]

Your grammar skills hardly show you to be 'a' LLB
grammar nazi ftw. 2 Feb 2013, 10:30
+11 -2
[quote name="XYZ"][quote name="Ex-NLSIU student"]
Are you an LLM?[/quote]

Your grammar skills hardly show you to be 'a' LLB[/quote]

since it's pronounced 'el'-'el'-'em', an is the correct article. -_-
Actual NLS Student 1 Feb 2013, 09:04
+15 -5
[quote name="NLSIU Student"]I think its a good thing he was sacked. He was deliberately instigating students to protest against the administration. Doing this was denuding the scholastic culture of NLS. Its high time people realise that NLS is a college and the students are there to study and not be pawns and foot soldiers in personal agendas of a few people like Siddharth Chauhan.[/quote]

Dude, I doubt you are from NLS. There is no one here who supports Chauhan being sacked. And WTH is denuding the scholastic culture??

And oh, it's Sidharth, not Siddharth.
CK 1 Feb 2013, 09:51
+9 -1
[quote name="NLSIU Student"]I think its a good thing he was sacked. He was deliberately instigating students to protest against the administration. Doing this was denuding the scholastic culture of NLS. Its high time people realise that NLS is a college and the students are there to study and not be pawns and foot soldiers in personal agendas of a few people like Siddharth Chauhan.[/quote]

I really hope you're not from NLSIU, for if you are, you're putting the rest of us to shame. Just how is raising concerns over the dwindling number of faculty meeting or highhandedness in decision making denuding the scholastic culture? At the very least it promotes dialogue and discourse, something we at NLS cherish dearly.
Ex NLS student 1 Feb 2013, 09:29
+23 -2
The culture of simply throwing out / silencing / threatening students and faculty members who object to the way things are run in "Harvard of the East" is a long standing tradition at NLSIU. Heavens forbid that we deviate from this tradition now.

I think that this is NLSIU's loss. It is populated largely with teachers who actively dislike their students, who don't prepare for classes, who teach outdated courses and who grade preferentially. What saves the institution from utter decay is a large and committed body of ex students who come to teach courses, take seminars, counsel existing students, support student events financially and otherwise, and who are there for the students in a manner that the faculty has never been. I can't imagine any responsible Vice Chancellor taking a step that is so actively detrimental to the welfare of his students.
Dazed and Confused 1 Feb 2013, 10:02
+11 -10
Very important and well developed story, Prachi.

I'm an NLS alum. Chauhan is just another example of how tough it is for non-Southern profs at NLS.

But really - any lawyer who rights a letter like this while under "At-will" employment can't profess surprise when the inevitable happens. I don't mean to dismiss the very valid discussion of the administration's actions here or in general, but If you were GC for the school you'd fire Chauhan as well simply for lack of prudence. I dont know Chauhan and cant judge his motives, but this is a cliche employment situation. The complainant is usually playing some other game, terribly naive or just a knucklehead. I'm sure he wishes he could step back from the letter now, even if he still believes his points.
Ex-NLSIU student 1 Feb 2013, 10:20
+9 -2
[quote name="Dazed and Confused"]Very important and well developed story, Prachi.

I'm an NLS alum. Chauhan is just another example of how tough it is for non-Southern profs at NLS.

But really - any lawyer who rights a letter like this while under "At-will" employment can't profess surprise when the inevitable happens. I don't mean to dismiss the very valid discussion of the administration's actions here or in general, but If you were GC for the school you'd fire Chauhan as well simply for lack of prudence. I dont know Chauhan and cant judge his motives, but this is a cliche employment situation. The complainant is usually playing some other game, terribly naive or just a knucklehead. I'm sure he wishes he could step back from the letter now, even if he still believes his points.[/quote]

Only, Law School is neither a business nor a corporate law firm. It's a University, and its success depends on values such as transparency and openness, inter alia. Your argument fails utterly.
NLS Alum 1 Feb 2013, 10:37
+46 -1
Anyone remember C.S. Dattu? I think he was Batch of 1997. Came back to teach (I think) Socio or Law and Poverty. Put up with the horrorshow that was NLS admin for about 2 trimesters and then he cut and gave them a right good roasting on 19(1)(a). There were people standing around it laughing all day. Awesome.

Siddarth Chauhan is someone I attended college with and a friend. At a time when campus was about corruption and apathy on the part of the Administration, and mostly apathy on the part of the students (which manifested itself in either rent-seeking behaviour or in wastedness, depending on whom you ask), Sid C was reading/writing papers, setting up forums for people to meet, singlehandedly giving feedback on course curricula. The guy cares only about Academics. He got a foreign LLM so he could teach, not so he could get a fancy job abroad or to 'take a year off' like everyone else. He is also the only person I remember getting a foreign LLM AND then coming back to teach from NLS alumni.

And this is how they reward him. NLS is a great college because of its students, because of its amorphous culture, and because of its alumni network. It's faculty is crap. It's administration might as well be working at the Big Bazaar down the street. Pathetic.
Law Teacher Delhi 1 Feb 2013, 11:50
+12 -21
I wonder why Sidharth Chauhan chose to teach at NLSIU in the first place and that also as a VISITING faculty.

If he is really keen to have a long-term, decent academic career, he should have applied to Jindal Global Law School which is home to 50 similar faculty members, some from his alma mater NLSIU & Pennsylvania as well and many from other US/UK universities. He could have taught in some foreign universities as well. People should not be emotional in making career decisions.

I feel bad for him who was doing a great job but at a law school which is a bad place as an employer.
NLS Alum 1 Feb 2013, 12:25
+9 -4
You're making assumptions about his career choices, and you don't appear to even know him. It is his right to teach where he wants, and if he wants to give back to the university that gave him legal education (rather than go to Jindal, which has a turnover of one year for faculty members), then that's his decision, isn't it?
NLS Student 1 Feb 2013, 15:14
+16 -3
[quote name="Law Teacher Delhi"]I wonder why Sidharth Chauhan chose to teach at NLSIU in the first place and that also as a VISITING faculty.

If he is really keen to have a long-term, decent academic career, he should have applied to Jindal Global Law School which is home to 50 similar faculty members, some from his alma mater NLSIU & Pennsylvania as well and many from other US/UK universities. He could have taught in some foreign universities as well. People should not be emotional in making career decisions.

I feel bad for him who was doing a great job but at a law school which is a bad place as an employer.[/quote]

He was probably teaching at NLS due to the high quality of students. JGLS, really? Money is not the only determining factor for a lot of people/
Law Teacher Delhi 2 Feb 2013, 01:26
+11 -1
Who denies the fact that NLSIU has the best quality of law students in the country and its a matter of great pleasure, pride and challenge for any law teacher to teach such students and learn with them.

But you guys completely mistook my point. NLSIU offered him Visiting faculty position. I'm sure, the salary must be even lesser than that of an Asst. Professor. This man who is a graduate of NLSIU & Univ. of Pennsylvania deserves much more than that. A pofessor like him should have been offered a permanent teaching position at NLSIU as an Asst. Professor to start with.

I am in delhi academic circles for last 10 years. I have watched Jindal law schools closely since it was being started, attended its conferences and I have some friends in its faculty members. I have not an iota of doubt in saying that this college provides best working condition for a faculty in India. The quality and number of students is also improving with each passing year and some kids are extremely bright like NLS or DU guys.

Anyway my best wishes to the bright and popular faculty, Sidharth.
NLS ALUM - 2008 1 Feb 2013, 12:03
+21 -3
This is a bit unexpected on the part of the VC. I have met the VC a few times over the past year or so and he had been very forthcoming about inviting more nls alum to teach at NLS. In fact he went out of his away and was prepared to reschedule classes in order to facilitate a few prominent professionals to be able to take a course or two in nls, which was something that i would not have expected from earlier administrations. In my opinion, he didnt seem like the sort of vc who would have taken the decision to dismiss a teacher of chauhan's caliber lightly. Maybe Kian we should try and get an official statement from the office of the VC so that we can have a more balanced coverage of this incident. Further, we should remember that the VC has been under a lot of pressure on this perm time issue after the rape, esp. with the notice from BU and various articles in the mass media about the safety of students in NLSIU. Maybe some bad decisions were made under pressure.

That being said, prima facie, it looks like a brilliant teacher was dismissed from NLSIU merely on the ground that he made a few critical comments (which were well measured and made with the intention of making the policy decision making process more inclusive). If this is actually the only reason behind the dismissal, it reflects badly on the current administration and shows that when push comes to shove, decisions are taken unilaterally and emotionally rather than in a objective rational manner.
NLS Alum as well 1 Feb 2013, 12:24
+0 -1
I completely agree. Thank you for this reasoned and balanced response.
Madrasi 1 Feb 2013, 14:24
+1 -1
Winnie? Is that you?
Winnie 1 Feb 2013, 17:33
+1 -0
Haha Spad, no it's not
Ex Law School 1 Feb 2013, 12:16
+4 -4
Chauhan is better off elsewhere. If they had chosen to ignore him instead of firing him, he would probably have been content to rot there, wasting his time and energy.

As for the administration, I am just saddened to see such Machiavellian planning and execution in aid of such petty goals and agendas. Such a waste of their talent and lack of morals.....
call me a coward 1 Feb 2013, 14:44
+5 -2
this is a moment to toast the courage of the young teacher, but isnt he setting a wrong example, law school does teach us to be fearless but also to be tactful and wait for the right time. There is no going out in a blaze of glory, few days later most of us (perhaps) would not remember siddharth, but if he had stayed at nls and had continued his advocacy there were more chances of him succeeding. law school is a tricky place both to study and teach (i have had both) and to get to the goal one has to be cunning and diligent. though i salute his uprightness and conviction i cannot but feel sorry for his naivety. Quoting Paris from Troy 'there is no glory in death'
Guest 1 Feb 2013, 14:54
+13 -0
If the VC/ EC or Registrar (whoever is behind sacking Siddhartha) would have executed their authritarian zest with the same alacrity a few years ago, teachers like [...], [...] ([...] teacher), [...] (appparently a [...] law teacher) etc would not have been around for as long as they had/have been. Instead [...] who is a standing joke is today a professor of law and Sid C has been sacked while Aparna, Mrinal, Sudhir Krishnaswamy and Shamnad Basheer are teaching elsewhere because there own alma mater could not accomodate them on fair terms. I hope you are reading this Dr. Rao - long ago I thought you were a beacon of hope after jayagovind's abysmal tenure ... now I wonder whether in his spineless consistency he posed a better alternative to you. Atleast he did not let Nagaraj dance on his head the way you have.
NLS Student 1 Feb 2013, 15:36
+3 -0
Chauhan is the best we had here. As a student, whether in terms of course structure, the teacher himself/herself, or the amount of knowledge I will grasp in the classroom, I actually have zero incentive to come to class.
abc 1 Feb 2013, 17:02
+6 -0
Haha seriously. He has a fan club here at NLS. Not only was he a great teacher, he was easily the most approachable member of faculty, and was also a guide and mentor to the mooters and debaters at college. We always thought he was too big for this place anyway.
Guest 1 Feb 2013, 18:36
+10 -0
"there is no glory in death".......well son, there certainly is no glory in survival at other's whims. This is a typically Indian rxn to dissent : and something that we have been seeing more of late....crush dissent, remove from the root any kind of deviance. Why have we Indians developed this intolerant streak of late? .Its inexplicable but may have its roots in the "crony capitalism" that we are all so in love with. The culture of sycophancy and ass-licking. Whoever doesn't lick ass gets licked himself.
Shame 1 Feb 2013, 19:12
+12 -2
Shame on NLS... Does Rao think he inherited NLS from his ancestors and can do whatever he wants with it? Time for an Arab Spring in national law schools...
2 Feb 2013, 04:28
+6 -0
I doubt if he is going to read LI. However, urge NLS alum should reach out to him!
Rule of Law 2 Feb 2013, 12:03
+2 -7
Let's get clear about the real issue here..Any person versed with contract law, wouldn't go around making ethical arguments like these..When a person has been appointed on a contract basis, he can be removed at the will of the appointing authority without giving any reason(s)..And to the 'so called law students/graduate' speaking against his dismissal, I would suggest that they might well start a "National Morals School" with a website "morallyindia.com" to publicise their views..
"Rule of law in a moral society" - Sounds like an oxymoron

And everyone seems to be creating a logical link between the letter and his dismissal. But do you realize that irking the administration on a single issue need not have been the only reason for such a decision to be taken. The worst thing you can do is to condemn someone without knowing the situation in its entirety. The point being you might be informed, but not entirely or accurately.
N Rao 6 Feb 2013, 06:51
+1 -0
LI, Sarasu is a graduate of the 1995 batch. Thanks
nameless 7 Feb 2013, 06:19
+2 -1
[b]Mr.Chauhan[/b] has acted sensibly keeping in mind the NLS work culture which he had witnessed during his student period. Unfortunately, I hear, that, democratic regime has been replaced with [b]hitlerism[/b] and oppositions (like Siddharth Chauhan and many more), takes the place of dismissal, terminate .. Harvard of the East has become one more political pub. Lucky enough .. NLS is still on rolls due to its tags and students.
Guest 7 Feb 2013, 10:37
+9 -9
The people who support Chauhan have no idea how organisations work. If you have a grevience with the decision of the CEO, you take it up with him. If you get nowhere, you go to the governing body, which would be the executive council. Shooting off an email to the Director and COPYING ALL THE STUDENTS is gross indiscipline. In any organisation in the world, you would be sacked immediately. NLS did the right thing nothwithstanding he may have been a good teacher. You cant have the teachers disagreeing with the director in an email and copying the entire student body. Utterly ridiculous. I'd be surprised if Chauhan gets a job anywhere after this. Cant believe that no one has brought up this point.
Ex-Symbi 7 Feb 2013, 14:38
+1 -0
Well, seems NLS is no different from my alma mater in terms of admin. Many of he admin's directives bordered on the sheer ridiculous. Like taking ppl out of a DPC exam mid-way to attend a guest lecture, which in fact was for a junior batch, coz it was sparsely attended and then returning them to complete the paper. Every dynamic prof was driven out by the old-guard in connivance with the elders. Same shit everwhere it seems.
guest2 8 Feb 2013, 04:59
+0 -0
Guest2 : Guest1 is right..only when governing body is decent.