Snort: Outlook releases law school rankings without NUJS, NLIU, NLU-J, as GNLU comes 3rd

Another year, another nonsense law school ranking: Reader beware
Another year, another nonsense law school ranking: Reader beware

Following the publication of India Today’s theoretically irrelevant law school rankings last month, Outlook India’s 2016 top 20 law school rankings have been released but do not included NUJS Kolkata, NLIU Bhopal or NLU Jodhpur.

The rankings have placed NLSIU Bangalore, Nalsar Hyderabad and GNLU Gandhinagar in first second and third place, followed by ILS Pune, BVDU Pune, Jamia Milia university in Delhi, HNLU Raipur, Varanasi University’s faculty of law and several others.

Anyway, as we have made clear before , magazine rankings should be taken with such a large pinch of salt that they should come with a health warning attached.

But since there is none, and since many parents apparently take Outlook and India Today very seriously (despite such rankings generally being commercial vehicles for advertising) consider yourself warned by us covering this: if you are making a decision about which college to join on the basis of these rankings, you might as well flip a coin.

And to be a little bit fair, it’s not entirely their fault: NUJS, NLIU and NLU Jodhpur have been boycotting the magazine rankings for a while now (mostly as a mark of protest at the random ranks doled out every year).

Also, on that note - what has the government been doing since the HRD ministry announced it would create its own ranking law schools last year?

Also read: Want to know how magazines’ law school rankings work?

Comments

LawyerInMaking 27 Jun 2016, 12:23
+0 -0
ILS at 4th and GLC at 13th. Much wow.
kianganz 27 Jun 2016, 12:28
+1 -0
Does anyone have a print copy of the magazine by the way? Would love to know who advertised this year... :)
Sardar 27 Jun 2016, 12:38
+6 -0
Only Manikchand deserves a mention in this list.
M 27 Jun 2016, 12:51
+0 -0
@Kian: Does the silence mean the demise of the mooting premier league? I have heard nothing on LI, about any new mooting news.
kianganz 27 Jun 2016, 12:58
+0 -0
Next season it'll kick off again, this season we're planning for a more superficial wrap-up, hopefully soon... Will keep you posted...
Analyst 27 Jun 2016, 13:44
+1 -1
Incredible. As per this ranking Gallu's placement score is 140 while NLS and NALSAR is 147 and 149. My head spins to think of the quality of research that leads to such a conclusion. Also weird is how the selection process awards different scores when all these use CLAT.
Haha 27 Jun 2016, 15:18
+0 -1
I'm guessing selection scores are different because the cut-off ranks are different for different colleges. So, despite both using the CLAT, it is more difficult to get in to NLS than NALSAR, so the selection criteria is tougher (and so better?) for NLS?

How the selection criteria for ILS beats NALSAR I don't know
Disappointed 27 Jun 2016, 13:51
+10 -4
I've recently noticed an increasingly snarky tone by legally india. This with almost all topics it covers. Please improve journalistic standards before being critical of everything everyone else does.
Aww 27 Jun 2016, 15:19
+4 -2
With both magazine rankings and Bar Council of India, as a long term reader of LI, I can attest that there has been zero increase in snark levels. It has stayed much the same. In fact, on magazine rankings, Kian has become a little bit softer, if anything.
Disappointed 28 Jun 2016, 17:15
+0 -0
Must've been pretty darn snarky to begin with then.
kianganz 29 Jun 2016, 00:02
+1 -0
Deep down, yes we always were pretty darn snarky, but it takes a while to find your voice as a publication (and as an editor), both in the online medium, a new culture, and a new beat.

So yes, I think it's fair to say that on some issues we dare to be snarky more often these days.

No harm or offence intended though.
kianganz 29 Jun 2016, 00:00
+0 -0
Actually, if we go back long enough, when I first arrived in 2009 and covered magazine rankings, I was all blue-eyed and bushy-tailed about it, and had no idea what a mess they were.

Gradually I learned :)
kianganz 29 Jun 2016, 00:00
+4 -0
Thanks for your feeback, you're probably right that overall we are far snarkier than we were in 2009 (though we've always been a little edgy and tried to push the envelope a bit).

That choice is mostly intentional: we've come to realise that snark can be good and useful in journalism too, particularly when dealing with stories that are so ridiculous they should not even qualify as journalism.

Us even covering India Today and Outlook rankings is a tragic and shameful thing, and the only way I can look at myself in the mirror in the morning is if I do it with at least some snark.

Also, regularly covering absurdities such as some of the things the BCI or law schools do without resorting to snark, would literally probably cause us and readers to fall into a deep depression about the state of the world pretty quickly.

Hence, snark. It should be pretty obvious where and how we use it and will not affect our independence or objectivity with regard to facts.

If you disagree, please do share your thoughts, always interested to hear feedback about our stylistic choices.
Alas 27 Jun 2016, 14:49
+3 -0
what the hell.....where is lovely university? ......its not nls nlu jodhpur or nalsar.....Lovely univ deserved no 1 spot.
Guest 28 Jun 2016, 05:07
+3 -11
Congratulation to GNLU for ranking 4 in India Today and 3 in Outlook. Huge slap to Legally India. We salute Professor Bimal Patel and his leadership
kianganz 28 Jun 2016, 05:33
+11 -1
Aaaah, it hurts, nooooh, please Outlook, please India Today, please GNLU, stop slapping us!

Sorry, I couldn't resist some snark in response to that highly amusing comment. :)
lawschoolleaks 28 Jun 2016, 11:12
+1 -0
No fan of GNLU or any other law school for that matter. But if NLUJ and NUJS are not considered, it is pretty fair to award GNLU Rank 3 after NLS and NALSAR.

So the top 3 in this ranking is not at all unreasonable.
kianganz 28 Jun 2016, 11:24
+2 -2
Interesting. Really though?

Haven't looked closely at the numbers, but one thing I noticed is how does GNLU have a placement score of 140 when NLSIU has 147 (and Nalsar 149), and GLC Mumbai for instance only has 126, ILS 133, etc etc...

As far as I understand it, because GNLU has such large batch sizes, it only managed to place 50, or at most half of a batch. GLC does better than that or the same as, no?

Or does 'placement score' (whatever that is), only take into account the 'top' 20 jobs or so?

Agree though, that if you take top few placements then GNLU might reasonably be third in this list.
Ive noticed 28 Jun 2016, 17:14
+3 -0
Kian, I have to ask- I agree a lot of what the GNLU administration does is laughable but does that really give you right to vilify the college the way you do? I mean anyone can see you really seem to have it out for them. Please try and remember that what you wrote about any college affects the hundreds of alumni as well as prospective students. It's really not fair to them.
kianganz 28 Jun 2016, 23:09
+0 -1
Thanks for your comment but where am I vilifying? I'm asking genuine questions and getting no comments. If GNLU is suddenly the 3rd best law school in the country according to Outlook, does that not deserve highlighting?

Are more than 50% of each batch not unplaced? (If I'm wrong on that guesstimate, since GNLU provides no figures, please correct me)

We report the stories that we find and come across. Right now, GNLU is the flavour of the last month or two. Maybe next month there won't be any more GNLU stories and another college will be (just as Nalsar was during Nalsargate episode, or NUJS was when lots of professors left, or NLS was when it fired one of their profs for speaking up against the admin, etc etc).

We don't make up the news, we just report it.

And as an alumni or prospective student, I thought you'd appreciate that.

My view is: you, as an individual, are more than any one college or label, and if you really care about your college and it's future, then you should welcome that at least one media is focusing on the things going on at the college.

Trust me, no one will care what college you're from and what Legally India said about it next week or a year from now, and our coverage does not do any harm to any student, present, past or future.

Please explain, what is your fear exactly? And how do you think our coverage disadvantages anyone?
LI in a glass house 30 Jun 2016, 04:08
+1 -2
All right! So what do we have here.

Facts -
1. Magazine which brings out rankings that Kian does not agree with.
2. Rankings do not have NUJS in them.
3. Kian writes snarky article and then comments "[i]Does anyone have a print copy of the magazine by the way? Would love to know who advertised this year... :)[/i]"
4. Fact unknown to most - [b]NUJS is a Legally India advertiser[/b]

Kian implies that the Outlook rankings are influenced by lawschool advertising. Would he be okay if we claimed that his criticism is also because he wants to bring out coverage favourable to his advertiser i.e. NUJS?

I think he wont like it nor would it be accurate. He is just reporting what he thinks about the rankings.

Same is the case with Outlook rankings. Outlook asked a bunch of questions to a bunch of colleges and published the rankings based on how these institutions replied.It is ok for Outlook to omit the ones who did not respond back to their questionnaire.
Noojie 30 Jun 2016, 11:18
+1 -0
@Glass House: Taking a little bit of liberty with 'facts', aren't you? NUJS is not, nor ever has been an advertiser with LI. It is iPleaders, a privately owned organisation, which is collaborating with NUJS with a course, which is the advertiser. If you can't wrap your head around the difference between the two, then time for you to get back to law school, if you have already got out of it.
Also, Outlook's premise is faulty. You do not publish a ranking based on how the institutions rate themselves, without checking the facts for yourself. The results speak for themselves in their absurdity.
kianganz 30 Jun 2016, 12:11
+1 -0
Oh yes, thanks, forgot about the above comment. 10.1 Noojie is right, that's basically not an NUJS ad that went up yesterday but an iPleaders ad, which is a company similar to Rainmaker.

But more than arguing about the origin of the ad, your point therefore reminds me a little bit of emails a certain chairman of a certain bar council has been sending us recently... :)

Seriously though, in any case, we've been happily bashing Outlook and India for years (and also reported favourably on NUJS' decision to boycott the rankings, which clearly many other colleges have now joined).
http://www.legallyindia.com/201008201213/Law-schools/nujs-ers-threaten-outlook-a-india-today-law-school-rankings-with-press-council-complaint

Re Outlook and advertising, there were allegations of a correlation between buying ads and rankings, and judging by how some colleges are ranked, I would not be so surprised if that appearance of a correlation still exists this year...
Oh really now? 30 Jun 2016, 19:29
+0 -0
Umm Kian and Noojie, I wish I could put up screenshots for you to see. You say "iPleaders ad". Please look at the ad banner on top of this page and the pop up on this page. THERE IS ONLY NUJS mentioned. No mention of iPleaders. I haven't clicked the links so I don't know what page is linked and how iPleaders is associated with NUJS here, but common sense would tell me the ad is paid for by NUJS. This invalidated your entire argument. Please don't be the pot that calls the kettle black.
kianganz 30 Jun 2016, 19:34
+0 -0
Not that it matters even if NUJS advertised, I can tell you, to the best of my knowledge, NUJS has nothing to do with those ads.

As far as I know, iPleaders runs and markets the day-to-day course on a profit share model or so.

Again though, even if it was an NUJS ad, it shouldn't matter. Our advertisers are not a secret and we'd run negative stories about colleges that advertise too.

Us not mentioning the absence of NUJS in these rankings (and NLIU and NLU J for that matter), would have made a mockery of the obvious facts.

I have a feeling you're trolling slightly though, so maybe I shouldn't have risen to the bait...
Noojie 3 Jul 2016, 03:25
+0 -0
You simply validate the argument that common sense is not so common in these days. Especially when it comes to you. It is obvious iPleaders would want NUJS to get the top (and only) billing in these course advertisements. The latter name brings students, while the former has not yet reached those heights. Regardless of pots or kettle, nothing can restore your charred gray cells, apparently.
CS 5 Jul 2016, 18:07
+0 -0
ILS definitely deserves to be in the top 5. They win many moots. Great alumni. The placements through college are low paid because most of the students accept pre placement offers and these are not mentioned in college records. Also there are many students who pass from the college and pursue post grad. courses at great institutes such as Cambridge, Hague Academy of International Law and NUS( a whole lot of them).