An NLIU Bhopal participant of the 12th Nani Palkhivala Tax Law Moot held at Sastra University School of Law Thanjavur, has added an open letter to that of NLSIU Bangalore and Nalsar Hyderabad, who had complained about the judging standards at the moot, as reported on Legally India yesterday.
NLIU Bhopal mooter Jasraj Singh Narul wrote that “the judges in the second preliminary round were not up to the mark”.
Meanwhile, one of the NLSIU Bangalore mooters, Anumeha Karnatak, who together with her team-mates and Nalsar Hyderabad participants in the moot first raised the issue, has issued a new statement, that they “simply want ‘fair judging’ in domestic moots”.
Karnatak added: “I hope you’ll find it in you to support our cause and not be dismissive about it. Also, we, along with other teams, are going to try our best to make sure that Sastra University of Law does not conduct the next edition of the moot.”
We have reached out to Sastra University’s moot court committee convenor for further comment earlier today but have received no response at the time of publication.
Update: We had missed an email from late Saturday evening with Sastra’s comment. We regret the delay, here is Sastra’s moot committee’s response in full:
The organisers do not wish to enter into iterative arguments based on allegations that are devoid of merits & arbitrary.
We can’t help but wonder the true intent of making such feedback public when the participants could have given it to us personally, like most other participants. We do take participants feedback very seriously and this edition did witness improvements drawn from previous years feedback.
Nevertheless, as is our duty, it will be our constant endeavor to improve the quality of the competition.
We are eager to take constructive criticisms and work towards betterment, leaving behind the scandalous remarks made by misunderstanding and misrepresenting the facts.
As organisers, we still maintain that the moot quality was never compromised on any front and completely deny the baseless charges made by the dissatisfied few.
Yesterday, the Sastra mooting committee had commented: “I feel there is no need for a point-wise response to such baseless, arbitrary, unfair, imaginative & sweeping allegations made by the teams from NLSIU Bangalore and NALSAR. We feel that their inability to accept their exit in the preliminary rounds and their failure to take the fair result of the competition in the right spirit has resulted in this avoidable frustration and their puerile outburst.”
NLIU’s Jasraj Singh Narul wrote:
This is in regard to the Nani Palkhivala Moot Court Competition. I read the post with regard to the concerns of NLSIU and NALSAR and I think the time is right to point out the similar concerns faced by team NLIU as well.
I would like to bring it to your notice that the judges in the second preliminary round were not up to the mark. I am no one to question their knowledge but when the lofty standards scoop that low, one is left with no other option but to question. Clearly the judges did not want Supreme Court judgments but were pretty convinced with foreign jurisdictions and points which were not even germane to the issue.
As pointed out by the NLSIU team, the memo of the opponent team was really not up to the mark. Same happened in our case where such arguments were advanced which were irrelevant and against their case.
We submitted various books for references like Nani Palkhivala on Tax, Justice GP Singh’s book on interpretation of statutes, letters addressed to the UN by the Indian Government with respect to the treaties and what not. The judges didn’t understand a word when it came down to interpretation. They would just pass it between themselves and give us back.
I remember that when the other team was made to argue, one judge invited him and said- ” you need not argue, the case is already in your favor”. You just don’t decide the case without even hearing them out!!!!!
One judge was clearly biased when the rounds started as he wouldn’t allow our team extension of time however, he would give as much time as the other team needed.
The judge was pretty much prejudiced from the very start as he would fill in the gaps and supplement the information to their speakers.
I would like to quote from the round-
Speaker from the other team- ” The assessee is not liable to be taxed in India under the India-Germany treaty”.
Judge 2-” Do you want to say that the assessee is not liable to be taxed in India because the India-Germany treaty does not apply?”
Speaker-” Indeed not your lordships! The counsel submits that the India-Germany treaty is applicable and even then the assessee is not liable”
Judge- ” No! You mean to say that India-Germany treaty is not applicable because if you agree to that you will lose your case.”
Speaker- ” But your lordships!”
Judge interrupts again
Speaker-” Yes the counsel agrees with the bench and would like to amend the pleadings”
Judge-”Allowed”
The fact sheet had pointed out already that if the above was accepted by the respondent the assessee is liable to be taxed in India. Our team had pointed it out in their written submissions that they are already accepting it. Therefore, their case stood dismissed by Estoppel. But the judge turned a blind eye on it.
The moot proposition reserved the Appellant the right to amend the pleadings but the judge would not let us argue the point of shell corporation which according to the proposition itself wasn’t raised during the initial stages under the problem before the final hearing on appeal.
However, he was very comfortable to allow the respondents to amend their grounds which the appellant did not even contest.
I am sorry to say but the guy did not get the concept that Supreme Court judgments are binding and not those of House of Lords.
We brought it to the Kiran’s notice about the same and he agreed to it. We requested him to track down the judge and not call him again for judging. What we went through shouldn’t happen with any other team in near future. The overall arrangements were pretty decent when it came down to student cooperation and food. We applaud for that but we express our deepest disappointment for having been judged by such judges.
Nani Palkhivala Memorial Tax Moot is a prestigious moot and its standards will fall down drastically if such shortcomings are not looked into. We would like the student fraternity of SASTRA University to take the note of the bitter truth and not revert back to us questioning our competence. It is really unprofessional to agree with us in person but get personal on a public platform!
We understand that it was your second edition of the moot and things will improve eventually but adopting a hostile attitude towards any criticisms will not be welcomed by any college. We apologize for the above but the truth had to be told. I believe that the same shall be looked into in the near future. All the best!
NLSIU postscript
NLSIU Bangalore mooter Anumeha Karnatak, who originally shared the NLSIU and Nalsar teams’ joint complaints with Legally India, full post-script regarding the episode.
I was one of the participants at the Nani Palkhivala Moot, 2016. On behalf of my team and the team from NALSAR, I would like to thank everybody who has supported us in our attempt to bring to light the unfairness and injustice that we faced at this Moot. It is really heartwarming to see people in large numbers, and from various law colleges, taking our side and understanding what we must have been through. We would like to clarify that we do not seek any relief or redressal from this. And it does not concern just us. It concerns everybody who has been subject to arbitrary and unfair judging at various domestic moot court competitions.
While this is the first time that teams have voiced their grievances on a public forum like this, I am pretty sure that several others share our concerns. It wasn’t surprising for us to see people labelling us as “sore losers”, “arrogant losers” and what not. But we decided to fight this nonetheless because we knew what we were standing for was just, and would greatly help several other prospective mooters who will now be able to stand up against arbitrary and unfair judging at different competitions. You all will agree with us that a lot of preparation goes into preparing for a moot.
From making the memorial to preparing for the oral rounds, it’s a lot of hard work. After giving 100% to a moot, the least you can expect is fair judging by somebody who understands the law and is willing to appreciate your arguments wherever warranted. But alas! To your shock, you face judges who do not have the basic understanding of the law in question and do not even bother to read the problem. Just think about this. In most moots, judges are briefed for a maximum of 15-20 minutes. If the area of law is technical in nature then this briefing seems largely inadequate. Don’t you find it outrageous that your 2 (or more) months of preparation are suddenly considered lesser important than their 15 minutes of briefing?
People (mainly from Sastra) have tried to silence us time and again, sometimes by calling us “sore losers” and at other times by asking us to “grow up”. It’s understandable why they would do this. Since such serious lapses have occurred on part of their judge, they are in a damage control mode. Hence the best option available is to shift the entire blame on the participating team. Again you will see that attitude they have maintained consistently to dodge all our specific allegations. Suddenly you’ll see an increase in the number of volunteers who claim to have witnessed our round. Last I recall, there were just two of them in our moot room.
Anyway, this kind of backfire and outrage by people who are incapable of understanding the seriousness and depth of the issue could be the reason why most teams in various competitions might choose not to speak up against downright arbitrary and unfair judging.
I will now finally stop and thank each and every one of you for showing considerable support to both the teams. Remember we are united in this cause. It’s not about a certain “arrogant team” from NLS or NALSAR. It’s about every team that gives its 100% to a moot and is yet subject to highly arbitrary and unfair judging. And and and, special thanks to the dude from Sastra who conceded in one of the comments to the previous post that our round was better. :P
We do not wish to conquer Jessup, my friend. We simply want “fair judging” in domestic moots. I hope you’ll find it in you to support our cause and not be dismissive about it. Also, we, along with other teams, are going to try our best to make sure that Sastra University of Law does not conduct the next edition of the moot.
I also thank the LegallyIndia team for promptly taking up this issue. You guys are the best.
The saddest thing is DSNLU got the best memorial award? So unfair and so sad.
Nobody9 Apr 2016, 13:53
+4-6
And the drama continues...
._.9 Apr 2016, 14:13
+2-7
More masala :3 is this issue bordering defamation now?
prem ratan9 Apr 2016, 15:18
+0-6
Dear all,
It's a good initiative you have taken. I wish it had some substance and bonafide intention with it.
Bhopali9 Apr 2016, 15:32
+3-0
Its Jasraj Singh Narul"a"
Justsomerandomperson9 Apr 2016, 16:46
+11-0
I understand how frustrating, stuff like this can get - I think it's an issue in many moots, not just this one, but your examples are pretty damning with respect to the quality of judging.
But what I'm really pleased to see, is the the professional nature of this complaint. I thought that some of the original complaint felt more like childish annoyance...especially the personal attack on the professor. But then again, I guess when you're eliminated in such an unjust manner - it is hard to keep it in.
Hopefully, things change.
._.9 Apr 2016, 17:47
+10-2
Even the wikipedia page says that indian jessup rounds have been criticised for poor judging. We are internationally recognised for it.:p https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moot_court
PodaAndavaneNambadan10 Apr 2016, 04:21
+10-9
While admitting to the fact that I wasn't bestowed with the opportunity to listen to some of the teams' arguments, I was listening to those that were made by NALSAR. Trust me, they were bad! Especially the first speaker who couldn't conjure a single proper sentence in english. So how do you expect them to get selected to the next rounds? Cry babies!
Room 20910 Apr 2016, 07:41
+10-4
How Many Volunteers were there exactly per room? Judging from the Legally India, Seems there were gazillion. Rather than listening to our request and improving your Judging quality, you guys are instead indulging in ad hominem attacks. This truly shows the difference in class between SASTRA university and NALSAR.
#Jai Maharasthra
Bleh.12 Apr 2016, 04:13
+1-0
There has been criticisms for poor judging from three NLUs so far. And I am sure lot of other law schools agree with the released statement. Instead of rectifying the criticisms, you would better like to engage in ad hominem attacks. But I understand where you are coming from. The heat must be screwing with you.
Sastraite10 Apr 2016, 06:10
+5-11
I understand the treatment you received was perhaps not what you deserved. But converting your stand alone experience into a general opinion of how my law school functions or works is outright defamatory. While we endeavour to conduct a brilliant moot, understand that we have only the best interest of the teams in mind. Maligning any particular team is never on our agenda. The true measure of a law school is not about where it is situated or a teacher who made a specific judgement call. Respect and try appreciating the equal amount of work that went back here to organise a moot.
And please please understand that we all work for a unified cause. Moots are only an enabler to better legal understanding.
SASTRA WILL ORGANISE NANI 17, irrespective of your moot societies blacklisting anybody. Pls don't form an opinion that your blacklisting us affects us or our functioning.
We would love to have you back next year and hope that you do well, as we hoped this year too.
Pls, let's all stop this guys. Its not nice to have taken to social media and fuel this website and your cause with such banter.
I wish you well for all your future endeavours. A very concerned SASTRAITE.
All students from SASTRA LAW are requested to stop replying, commenting or fuelling this in any manner whatsoever.
Guest10 Apr 2016, 07:04
+15-2
Dear Salsaite,
The whole moot was rigged and now don't try to hide things.
Non Sastraite10 Apr 2016, 09:06
+4-0
Bro that is such a Sastraite thing to say. :P
Arjun_Agarwal10 Apr 2016, 09:49
+6-3
Bad/unfair judging and irrational/inconsistent tabbing practices have consistently been hampering the quality of a number of moot competitions held in India (both national moots and national/regional rounds of international moots).
Participants at such competitions typically put in weeks or even months of work. Therefore, I think every OrgCom owes the participants the basic courtesy to do whatever they can to ensure that the judging is fair and of a decent standard. The least could do in this regard is have a comprehensive bench memo, brief the judges on the facts and the law adequately before the rounds and most importantly, prefer relevance of experience (in terms of the concerned subject area) before its magnitude while shortlisting potential judges.
This initiative by the fellow law school-ites is laudable. Talking about unfair and bad judging is somehow tabooed in law schools and those who do are labelled as 'sore losers'. This is the primary reason as to why such problems have not been rectified yet.
Guest 210 Apr 2016, 09:55
+3-2
Sastra being a relatively new law school, the organizers would have had a difficult time getting enough judges. They do not have a large pool of alumni to draw from like the older law schools do. Even if the organizers agree that the judging was poor, it is understandable that they would not publicly criticize those who had taken time out to judge at the organizers' request. That would only make it even more difficult for them to get judges next time.
There is only so much organizers can control judges. All they can do from their end is to send the briefing material to judges sufficiently in advance in addition to oral briefing prior to the rounds.
It would also help if the older law schools shared their database/ contacts for regular moot court judges with newer law schools to assist them in accessing a larger pool of judges.
Interesting10 Apr 2016, 10:32
+5-1
Read somewhere that even GNLU has blacklisted this moot. Sastra University, now I seriously doubt your ability to conduct a moot. Dont let it rot. Seems like GLC should again think of taking this up. This moot is definitely not in the right hands.
Badrinath Srinivasan12 Apr 2016, 03:35
+3-2
If the allegations are true, SASTRA should look into the issue and correct the same while hosting other moots. Kudos to the participants for bringing to the fore their critical observations.
This is also a lesson to the kids coz in the real world,you'll not have anybody to complain to and bias will be the norm.
Bleh.12 Apr 2016, 03:44
+2-1
You prepare for a moot putting your grades, time, hard work and the least you can expect is decent judging.
exMooter13 Jan 2017, 05:13
+1-0
Do read: http://opiniojuris.org/2012/02/13/dan-joyner-why-i-wont-attend-the-jessup-competition-again/
discusses similar problems abroad.
This is a delayed initiative. A couple of years back participants faced similar issues with the North India rounds of stetson organised by RGNUL (in 2013). Not a single judge there, except for Mr. David Ambrose (finals that too) and a faculty (an RGNUL alumni) from JGLS, had any experience in interntaional law. One of the judges even stepped out and told the participants that mooting is a useless exercise (imagine how this would have ben received by someone who would have prepared for the competition for months). One cannot forget that round in the quarters where both teams were made to stand and argue together for their rebuttals and the round became a trial by combat ( I will not name colleges here). Or where the judge stepped out of the room to take a call while the teams were arguing and then came back to say "I did not follow what you were saying". The issue unfortuantely was raised by Tier-2 univs and therefore the same did not catch as much momentum as the one in question. And its actualy funny how the student fraternity is not even united for the purpose of dealing with such issues, so much so that they dont even hear someeone's view if he/she is not from a tier 1 (assuming NLIU is tier 1 here).
Comments
It's a good initiative you have taken. I wish it had some substance and bonafide intention with it.
But what I'm really pleased to see, is the the professional nature of this complaint. I thought that some of the original complaint felt more like childish annoyance...especially the personal attack on the professor. But then again, I guess when you're eliminated in such an unjust manner - it is hard to keep it in.
Hopefully, things change.
#Jai Maharasthra
And please please understand that we all work for a unified cause. Moots are only an enabler to better legal understanding.
SASTRA WILL ORGANISE NANI 17, irrespective of your moot societies blacklisting anybody. Pls don't form an opinion that your blacklisting us affects us or our functioning.
We would love to have you back next year and hope that you do well, as we hoped this year too.
Pls, let's all stop this guys. Its not nice to have taken to social media and fuel this website and your cause with such banter.
I wish you well for all your future endeavours. A very concerned SASTRAITE.
All students from SASTRA LAW are requested to stop replying, commenting or fuelling this in any manner whatsoever.
The whole moot was rigged and now don't try to hide things.
Participants at such competitions typically put in weeks or even months of work. Therefore, I think every OrgCom owes the participants the basic courtesy to do whatever they can to ensure that the judging is fair and of a decent standard. The least could do in this regard is have a comprehensive bench memo, brief the judges on the facts and the law adequately before the rounds and most importantly, prefer relevance of experience (in terms of the concerned subject area) before its magnitude while shortlisting potential judges.
This initiative by the fellow law school-ites is laudable. Talking about unfair and bad judging is somehow tabooed in law schools and those who do are labelled as 'sore losers'. This is the primary reason as to why such problems have not been rectified yet.
There is only so much organizers can control judges. All they can do from their end is to send the briefing material to judges sufficiently in advance in addition to oral briefing prior to the rounds.
It would also help if the older law schools shared their database/ contacts for regular moot court judges with newer law schools to assist them in accessing a larger pool of judges.
Sastra University, now I seriously doubt your ability to conduct a moot. Dont let it rot. Seems like GLC should again think of taking this up. This moot is definitely not in the right hands.
This is also a lesson to the kids coz in the real world,you'll not have anybody to complain to and bias will be the norm.
http://opiniojuris.org/2012/02/13/dan-joyner-why-i-wont-attend-the-jessup-competition-again/
discusses similar problems abroad.
This is a delayed initiative. A couple of years back participants faced similar issues with the North India rounds of stetson organised by RGNUL (in 2013). Not a single judge there, except for Mr. David Ambrose (finals that too) and a faculty (an RGNUL alumni) from JGLS, had any experience in interntaional law. One of the judges even stepped out and told the participants that mooting is a useless exercise (imagine how this would have ben received by someone who would have prepared for the competition for months). One cannot forget that round in the quarters where both teams were made to stand and argue together for their rebuttals and the round became a trial by combat ( I will not name colleges here). Or where the judge stepped out of the room to take a call while the teams were arguing and then came back to say "I did not follow what you were saying". The issue unfortuantely was raised by Tier-2 univs and therefore the same did not catch as much momentum as the one in question. And its actualy funny how the student fraternity is not even united for the purpose of dealing with such issues, so much so that they dont even hear someeone's view if he/she is not from a tier 1 (assuming NLIU is tier 1 here).