finally....some respite for NUJS...Lolz

it is sad how certain people in the nujs adminsitration/faculty have always made life difficult for mooters by not allowing them to skip classes etc. mooters spend more time doing bureaucratic work than mooting. dr madhava menon is being missed.

mooters have to get certain privileges and special treatment than others!!

I don't know about privileges, but the student body definitely makes life a challenge for NUJS mooters!

Though it has been said before, I reiterate, it is very strange that there are no points for quarter-finalists at Jessup and Vienna.

Congrats Batra!!go symbi..

if they don't attend the min classes they shouldn't be allowed to pass. this is ridiculous. they need to at least attend the minimum required bar council standard.
believe it or not. mooting is not, and should not have to be everything.
people who believe that should flunk a year.

I wish Legally India also had a Research Premier League (ranking law schools on the basis of research projects and research published by faculty) like the MPL. However, given the fact that law schools in India are all about mooting and corporate jobs; such a league is a distant dream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@#2: Why blame the NUJS faculty and administration for making life hell for mooters? I thought mooters themselves go out of their way to make life hell for other mooters. If mooters cannot do a good enough job at that, the General Body pitches in with a few group mails, some times anonymous, etc.

@#4: And I dont understand the logic of attendance rules. Why cant we let attendance be governed by the simple forces of demand and supply. If a lecture is worth attending only because attendance is being taken, the concerned faculty member should think of alternative career plans

@#5: Very good idea. Mr. Prabhash Ranjan and Prof. Shamnad Basheer of NUJS could probably both individually win the league competing against all the other law schools put together.

@ #5:

If you have a RPL, we should probably request Prof. MP Singh, the grand old man of NUJS, to stay out of the league. Otherwise other universities will have some serious trouble in coming anywhere close to winning. There are also the young NUJS academics like Prof. Basheer and Mr. Prabhash Ranjan.

And NUJS Law Review (ranked 1st in India - above IJIL - by the Washington and Lee University's survey of law journals) will also tilt the league in favour of NUJS.

@ #6 - you must be one more of those jealous frustrated chaps from Jindal

Motting ought not to be considered as the only intellectual challenge for a given law student. There have been students in NUJS who are the best mooters, but are not even among the top 5o in terms of class rank. Furthermore, there are students who never moot, but still have shown comparable competence in terms of publications, research assistantship and presentations.
Plus, when I sopke to a Asst. Prof. at King's College, London while in his visit to Calcutta recently, he clarified the lack of mooting importance for higher studies. Admittednly, moots like Vienna and Jessup add up to your CV but the policy of any interviewer is this: "One international moot = One international Publication" and "One national moot = One national publication".
So far as attendance is concerned, if mooters cannot balance their extra-curricular activities and acadmics, why moot? It sounds unreasonable to considers mooters masters of law school and awarding special privileges is a childish idea.

Mooting is just a law school exercise like debating which limits your CV value. You cannot boast of your mooting skills when you attain a minimum age/experience. For instance, you can never say you won a moot when you were 22 when you are made a Partner at a Law Firm, or a Chairman of some government committee, or may be Prof/VC of any law school. However, things like presentations and publications never die away from your CV regardless of your post. For example, Tarunabh Khaitan, Vinay Sitapati from the NLSIU.

Legally India may do a MPL, not contended, but breaking news on mooting achievements is not what India needs, or indian lawyers need for that matter.

A good lawyer is the one who knows the law and reproduce it in legal terminology elsewhere. For that he needs no mooting deliberations.

I used to moot, debate, edit a university law journal, write articles and do some legal aid when I was in law school. i dont know what adds to my CV the most or the least. But I can swear on everything dear to me, nothing gives me the same rush of adrenaline as mooting does. The thrill of coming up with arguments, the challenge of speaking, the contented feeling you get when a court goes well ... I think nothing else, even my first international publication, comes nowhere close to this.

This is not to demean any other activity. All of them have their due places in law schools. But mooting is the only activity which makes you feel like a lawyer. A person in any stream can write papers or debate.

For people against privileges for mooters: You people criticise mooters but when they win a moot you are the first to boast about how great your college is...you guys are really pathetic.

Unfortunately, in NUJS there are some resentful/jealous people like this in the SJA so mooters are not given the status they deserve. Another problem is that some people in the MCS themselves only have a secondary interest in mooting and are primarily in it for politics/glamour...people in NUJS should know who I am talking about.

@ 11: obviously, only lawyers can moot. what is the argument in that?

@ #10

Mooting is equal to debating? At a Law School? Right.

You must be one of those hardcore "On that point Sir" debaters, who've either never mooted or tried and failed at it. Mooting is a LEGAL activity, and we're all at LAW SCHOOL. Debating, in India, is one huge game of little card tricks and rhetorical devices. Please don't disgrace the name of mooting by even mentioning it in the same breath as debating.

@12: "people in NUJS should know who I am talking about". Not exactly. Things would have been clearer if the posts were not anonymous. I am not saying that anonymous posts are a bad thing, especially in a forum like this. Even my comment is anonymous.

My point is that who you are referring to would become lot clearer if I knew who you were. The sad part about the NUJS mooting community at present is that each "side" considers itself to be the custodian of the ancient treasures of mooting and is suspicious of the other "side" and their intentions. This leads to each "side" believing that the other "sides" are out there to corrupt things. If a person from the other "side" wins or does well there are three possibilities: (i) the judge was biased or did not know how to judge (even if the judge has been a winner of Jessup), (ii) s/he cheated, (iii) s/he got lucky.

This when coupled with lot of so called mooters whose egos out do their achievements inside and outside the university makes the situation really bad.

Hope the golden days of NUJS mooting when people could form teams with each other not on the basis of friendships but on the basis of professional respect would return sometime.

1. Nobody takes credit of what others achieve. Not in mooting too. So it is the concerned students who work hard and get through. Not the college students. Also, when I say mooting itself is unimportant, why shall I take credits of mooting achievements. The argument fails on that part.
2. Somebody pointed fingers at the SJA in NUJS and its lack of involvement in moots. I think this argument falls flat since there are "remarkable" convenors, co-convenors and members in the Moot Society at NUJS who carry the tag of bolstering familyism and favour students who either share the common State or are/have been close friends. This is evident given this year's society where students have been to international moots after submitting improper and "no-argument" memorials. What is seen in evaluation of memorials in NUJS is the structure of it and not the conntent. You have greater chances of making up the moot team if care has been taken on footnotes (however fake) and headings and subheadings. It does not matter whether you are "arguing" properly on legal grounds. The same names qualify for the moots always!
3. No one is equating mooting with debating. Mooting of course involves legal research and drafting capabilities. However, I talked about equating mooting and publications which is a common knowledge. At the same time, only because we are at school does not mean we have to excel in moots. If mooting were seen as an evidence of oratory skills, why do mooters accept corporate jobs instead of court litigation? Doesn't that mean it is all about CV? Are mooters hypocrites? I would from the depth of my heart defend the glory of law school mooting for a student who genuinely cultivates his oratory skills in his school on mooting and post graduation has the courage to join litigation.
4. Mooting involves at least one researcher. What about the researcher? He is also a mooter but has little or no mention. So is mooting only about speaking? If not, and if researchers also qualify for the definition of moot, what differs them from those who write a paper for a journal or law review.

@ #16: Why dont you consider the possibility that the same names always qualify for big moots, because they are consistently good. Think of the phenomenon called Mr. Uday Joshi who qualified twice as a speaker and once as a junior researcher for Jessup. Point out one student in NUJS who can currently claim to be better than him.

About evaluation of memorials, how do you know there were no-argument memorials? Considering the memos were submitted confidentially to the MCS and after coding to the judges, you have no way of having seen the memos and knowing which was whose memo. A well formatted and well structured memo can also be well written.

If memo evaluation is so completely random in NUJS, how is it that rank 1 researcher in this year's team happens to be someone who won honourable mentions for both her memos as a researcher in Willem C Vis International Commercial Arbitration Moot Vienna (best performance of NUJS in Vienna ever in terms of memos)? Rank 2 researcher this year was someone who last year, in addition to winning the NLS arbitration moot, won Best Memorial award at that moot. Coincidences? Or memo evaluation outside NUJS is also equally screwed up?

I am not denying that writing articles is a worthy pursuit. I do respect and envy stalwarts like Shubhankar Dam. But why does one of these two activities have to be to the exclusion of the other? As you point out, mooting also involves research. People at times do write papers using the research they do for their moots. These activities can be complementary and need not compete with each other.

Well done Symbi!!!

The long posts indicate that lawyers (to-be) are in !!!

Guys and girls ... while mooting is not the end all, and mooting may not be relevant when one becomes a professional, mooting is indeed a way to develop skills and one of the ways to enhance CV value in lawschool. And it is a great experience. No one can refute the fact that a Jessup / Vis award makes the CV look great, though it may not necessarily lead to great opportunities (if on other counts the CV is weak). Also, I once saw an article in an international journal that stated something to the effect that mooting glory in India has become somewhat similar to making it to the law review in the US (sorry, I am not able to provide a link to the same), and I agree that the statement isn't completely correct.
Another interesting angle - A Magic Circle Firm even discussed my moots with me for 2-3 minutes and were very much interested in that section of my application (and I got an offer from them too) !!!

Although we all have our take on mooing, it may be a good idea to give it some thought before completely discounting the significance of moots, esp. when even some of the top 10 universities of the world participate in moots, and have great professors and professionals as coaches.

Ex-mooter.

Hey folks, mooting is not important. Nor is debating or article writing. NUJS moot teams may have done well; NUJS debate may have been organised well; NUJS may have been blessed with the music of Pt. Hari Prasad Chaurasia; NUJS folks may have published research papers in international journals.... who cares?

As a Noojie I am and will remain proud of the grand paint-ball competition that the campus saw a few months back. What can be more "contemporary" in this age of terrorism? What has to do more with "law"?

I suggest ILSA stop organising the Philip C Jessup International Moot Court Competition and start an international paint-ball championship. It should not be too difficult given ILSA NUJS chapter doesnt seem to be averse to the idea. Convincing the organisers in Vienna will be a bit more difficult. But we got the muscle-men. Dissenters can be handled.

All in support of the idea please assemble for a free drink of coffee from our second greatest achievement this year, the coffee machine.

NUJS Mooting seems to be in great turmoil still! It will certainly be poorer now with Uday, deepaloke, kaushik etc.. graduating. As a mater of fact with shaswata and all gone, who will organize the nujs moot from henceforth?

It will be a great loss I agree. But mooting in NUJS was not born with any person's entry into the college and will not be buried with any person's exit

Hey, I am from RMNLU. I have one observation to make about NUJS mooting. Y do you folks not mention Abhay Vohra among your great mooters in the above post? I saw him argue in our college during BCI last year. The finals court had him on one side and the legendary Roshan Santhalia on the other. Never seen something like that. The level of knowledge, the argumentative skills, the rebuttals, and the style... truly a clash of titans. NLU Jodhpur and Law Fac Delhi were lucky he didnt take up Jessup this year. Otherwise they would nt have made it to Washington.

@ #23 -
Hey - I'm from NUJS. Yes, there indeed is a long list of good mooters here.

@ #21 -
Those arent the only few involved in mooting / organizing the moots here and it's rather strange that you should make it sound that way. Credit to all of those you've (and #23) mentioned, but it seems unfair to make a comment section on a website a hall-of-fame of sorts.

Well, hopefully, the year that has been for NUJS mooting will see a turnaround next year. I think enough has been said about this on this forum already, so I'll stop there.

Just an FYI - most moot wins for us this year comprised of teams from 1st - 4th year students. Ditto with the moot organization, which had many more students in the organization team than what seems to have been suggested in an earlier comment.

Would appreciate if commentors would maintain the decency of not using this as a forum to anonymously 'brag' about their friends or unduly discredit others. Also, some basic level 'research' is the least the rest of us can expect from you.

20: Paint-ball, LCAS, ILSA, muscle-men, coffee machine!!! Nailed it.. Including the petitions n the signatures thats much more work than d president has done in the entire year!!! GV for president! The Revolution continues. m/

ps you might hav startd the revolution from the bed but its time tht everyone else wakes up fr their own good.. even if it requires door slamming n a little spamming lol dont stop, proud of u mate
pps might i add the am-a-zing race to the list..

Hi all,

I understand NUJS may have its internal problems. But please refrain from washing dirty laundry in public.

A fellow Noojie

@25. I wish GV for President was true. But sadly it is not.

@26: In complete agreement with you.

Please keep comments non-personal if possible, even if they are positive.

If anyone who is mentioned by name here would prefer to have their name redacted, please contact me or leave a comment saying so (include contact details please, they won't be published).

Best regards,
Kian

I for one am rather satisfied with the working of the SJA. All those who have been creating such a ruckus over the past few days and have resorted to even posting here - please abstain. This was a new low. Whatever grievances you have, you should know better than this and you need to take them up in an appropriate manner. This is what everyone has been telling you from the beginning. Please stop dragging others, least of all the entire university, into this.

I don't wish to name you guys here, but we all know who you are. It is astonishing how you're making the entire university suffer for the acts of 4-5 of you.

Hopefully, we've seen the end of this.

To all others - I apologize on behalf of some of the comments made here. Please ignore them.

@ 27 - A president who launches such slimy "attacks"? No, thankyou.

@ Kian please delete all the posts where internal problems of NUJS have been discussed.

@ Other please remember mudslinging at a public forum will make your own clothes dirty. (There is not Tide to clean it again) If you love NUJS/yourself stop doing it.

It is extremely disappointing to see so many personal comments about NUJS internal politics here. I hope certain members of the current batches realize that they are not the only people accessing this website and such comments will just spoil the college's image in the legal fraternity.

I agree with Tirthankar.

This has been an unfortunate and an embarrassing episode. The student body is united in expressing their disappointment in the manner in which certain issues have been brought up within the university and on this website.

For others who are outside of NUJS: We apologize. Only a small group of students indulged in these disruptive activities and all the mudslinging / petty posts were restricted to their comments. By no means does this reflect on the level or manner of debate in the university.

Please take whatever was said with a pinch of salt, and forgive their indiscretion. As a professional university, we believe in adhering to appropriate procedures and respectfully addressing issues of concern with dignity.

Mr. GV / Pipo and whoever else has posted here: we hope that you realize that this was no "revolution". You have been a cause of nuisance and an embarrassment to us all, especially those who are not involved in your petty controversies. Please stop dragging the entire university into your personal grudges and insecurities.

Kian - please do a better job of moderating the comments!

what is the big deal Noojies have about this exactly? Some problems and open discussion, some funny comments, so what???

Congrats to the winners, cos I guess thats what the forum is all about!!
i must commend on the level of research and intensity they bring with them to their moots!! more importantly thanks for organising INVICTA.,. he he !!
And WAY TO GO SYMBI!! Batra's made us proud!! Happy mooting guys while you can still do it, trust me you are gonna miss the feel of it after you pass out from law school!

@ Non Noojie
"What is the big deal about this exactly?"

The issue was over some stupid society award. One society won it, others did not. A few from the societies which lost out in the race (and their friends) made a political campaign out of it and directed their attacks at the friends of 3 - 4 members of the society which won.

Widespread campaigns to discredit the work of the society which won it, deragatory facebook posts which were personal in nature, pictures to ridicule those who associated wih those members, etc followed in an attempt to malign the friends of 1/4th of the society which won. The saddest part was that these people narrated the story in such a way as to convince others that there was a bias in handing out the award and lied to all the other students to provoke sentiments against the winning society (actually, mostly their friends)! These included made up stories about how threat sms's were sent (which were traced back to their own number), how 25 students attempted to beat up 2 other students (the "fight" here was a confrontation regarding deragatory posts and it involved 4 students, not 25!!), amongst others.

"so what?"

Maybe to you it doesn't seem like something was amiss here, but to many of us at NUJS it does. The people being targeted had little to do with the award. These efforts were personal and highly political in nature and were carried out with malice. Relying on such lies to further personal and political agenda was the low point. Mudslinging is not our tradition here. Properly conducted debate is.

Most of the comments on facebook / legallyindia / elsewhere were removed once the truth started emerging. This was hardly on "open discussion" since it was just one bunch of people targeting another. Perhaps if the comments had been genuinely witty, it would have been less of a problem :-).

Kudos to the ones who maintained a dignified silence through this.

Anyhow, it seems that sanity has prevailed and the issue has been put to rest. Good to see people exercising their better judgment. Hopefully, if they still have any objections to the award (yes, the same stupid award which triggered these series of events), they will take it up at the appropriate forum and in a dignified manner.

Firstly, feels good to see NUJS and Symbi doing well at the Vis. Would have loved it even more if the tag of "only Indian team" also went away, its been a long time and its time others repeat what Joyjyoti, Mithun and Sidharth did. Incidentally, the honourabke mention was also won that year (Joyjyoti).

As for making life better for Mooters, well it was never easy and as an ex-mooter (plus NUJS alumni) my point is simple it (the hardships) comes with the turf. You are either good enough forit or you aren't , no two ways about that. The first batch of NUJS never had it easy, yes there was some relaxation for attendance (i.e. limited to the period the team was in Delhi etc to research), but nothing more. Financial support was zilch! We didn't feel great about begging to Senior Advocates, but the Univ was new and one had to adjust! Many of the first batch mooters also debated, published (internationally in excellent peer reviewed journals), were active in social service scene...they balanced it.

Btw mooting many not be the only thing you do in law school, but it is one of the most imporatnt and you do gain stuff out of it (foreign internships for e.g)!