Hi,
I know you are confused and tensed and that your parents are confused and tensed too. Don’t worry; the master ranks’ issue will be settled in some time.
I am here to distribute some free advice.
Two things:
If you didn’t do well in CLAT, remember: ”You are more than a score, you can do well anywhere you go”- Kian Ganz.
I have a friend in Christ College, Bangalore, a college which usually doesn’t figure amongst the top 15 law colleges. My friend got a job in Trilegal, which is top law firm and pays 14 lacs per annum.
His case is not an exception for I know many other such people.
So say, you worked hard for your law entrances and deserved NLS Bangalore and well instead, get Christ Bangalore. With hard work (consistent hard work) and good choices (consistent good choices), you can achieve in Christ what you would have achieved by being in NLS.
You don’t believe me? Maybe you’ll believe someone else: “Again, many times the top-end of the not so-known schools turn out to be better than the low or medium end of schools which have proved themselves”- Abhijit Joshi, Partner at AZB.
Having said that, a good law school is a superb lawnchpad.
If you did well, remember:
Having done well in CLAT is history and doesn’t matter now. Forget it. Congratulate yourself; throw a party, click lots of photos when you land in some NLU. And then forget it. Forget your CLAT rank. Brace yourself up for the next battle.
Also, well, congrats! You’ll be living amongst the best students in India and it is very very exciting. Also there will be a few faculty members (1 in every 5 here) that will change you and motivate you just like they do in movies. Its going to be a movie now. What role do you have in mind for yourself?
A caveat: If you don’t do well in NLS or NALSAR or NUJS, you don’t do well.
**Do read this post of mine: Puppy training: ABCs of NLSs, Part-1- Adjusting (click here)Here is my post on ragging (click here).
Finally, I came, I saw, I changed. 17 thinks that hit you in an NLU (click here).
On choices (Yeah! Law school rankings and CLAT preferences): **
Before going any further please go through this post by a genius called Seth Godin.
“Very often, we’re challenged to make decisions with too little information. Sometimes, there’s no information—merely noise. The question is: how will you decide”?
“When there isn’t enough data, when there can’t be enough data, insist on the flip (of a coin)”.
“By refusing to lie to yourself, by not telling yourself a fable to make the decision easier, you’ll understand quite clearly when you’re winging it”.
NALSAR v. NUJS
If you are confused between NLS, NALSAR and NUJS; choose NLS. If you are confused between NALSAR and NUJS, do a coin toss.
Please read this post by Seth Godin (click here). “When there isn’t enough data, when there can’t be enough data, insist on the flip”.
I am a student at NUJS, so I might have a bias towards it. But I’ll try to be as objective as possible and rely on facts. I am also aware of the other type of fallacy: to show to others that I am not biased, I might end up favouring NALSAR.
I’ll take care of both.
NALSAR and NUJS will be rated on various parameters on a scale of 100, 150 and 200. I give 100 marks to less important things, then 150 and then 200 to the most important things. Here you go:
Infrastructure (100)
NALSAR- 100; NUJS- 75
(Everyone knows this. NUJS has a 5 acre campus with no space to accommodate all the girls. NALSAR has a 50 acre beautiful campus and a lake!)
Location (150)
NUJS- 150; NALSAR- 125
(Everyone knows this too. NUJS is in salt lake city, which is posh and happening. It’s also in Calcutta, the cultural capital of India. NALSAR is nowhere.)
Faculty (150)
NUJS- 150; NALSAR – 130
(NUJS has taken a clear lead in this; MP Singh, the VC, has got a large number of top notch people from India and abroad. NALSAR, on the other hand, hasn’t been proactive on this front [UPDATED]. See the websites for more details.).
Student quality (200)
NALSAR- 200; NUJS- 190
(NALSAR has a slight edge; it’s a strong second preference with CLAT aspirants).
Placements (200)
NALSAR- 200; NUJS- 190
(Again, NALSAR has a slender edge. Check LegallyIndia’s or Bar and Bench’s stats to do your own research). Click here to see Bar and Bench’s analysis of NLS-NUJS-NALSAR’ recruitments.
This, still gives us no conclusion. Scores are level at 755 each. So, insist on a coin toss. Read this post please [Click here]. You’ll know why coin tosses are important.
| Infrastructure (100) | Location (150) | Faculty (150) | Students (200) | Placements (200) | TOTAL | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| NUJS | 75 | 150 | 150 | 190 | 190 | 755 |
| NALSAR | 100 | 125 | 130 | 200 | 200 | 755 |
PS- Please don’t say that either of the colleges deserve 5-10 marks here or there. Also, if you think placements or faculty or any other component don’t matter as much to you as they do to me, please adjust the scores to that effect.
NALSAR’s USP- Reputation and Overall excellence
Bad things happening now at NALSAR: The new VC who is a butt of jokes
NUJS’s USP- Entrepreneurship and Academic Innovations
Bad things happening now at NUJS: The pathetic lower administrative staff
Now let us move on.
NLIU, Bhopal v. NLU, Jodhpur
Coin toss.
NLIU, Bhopal- State reservations are a big turnoff for me.
**NLU Jodhpur-**Gives you the option of doing a B.Sc course with some good science subjects and a BBA course too.
Though placements have not been great in both these colleges (very good is not great), they’ll still provide you with most of the things NALSAR or NUJS will.
UPDATE: As you can see, I am slightly tilted towards NLU Jodhpur.
GNLU v. HNLU
This is on a commenter’s request. So here you go:
GNLU has a better infrastructure and location. I don’t know about faculty but have heard that the HNLU’ faculty is not good. Also, HNLU has had a lot of problems in the past (student strikes, VCs playing musical chairs etc.).
Placements seem to be OKish with both the colleges. GNLU scores a brownie since it had a large number of students get recruited by Amarchand this year.
So GNLU it will be.
Hope this helps.
Next few days won’t decide your future. Every day will.
(Most people hate philosophical rants; so I’ll stop).
Finally, here is my preference list (law school rankings)
NLSIU
NUJS/NALSAR- Coin toss. (Wannabe entrepreneurs who want to start their own LPOs and law firms go to NUJS. People who love culture and Calcutta go to NUJS. People who want to win Rhodes scholarships and spend semesters abroad go to NALSAR. People who love space and nature go to NALSAR).
NLIU/NLUJ- Coin toss.
GNLU
HNLU At last, some stoic advice (courtesy of Seneca): Expect everything, good and bad. Accept them. Don’t expect perfect responses from others (people and institutions).
In law schools especially, expect some very bad faculty. Accept them too.
**PS-** This discussion on law school rankings i.e NUJS v. NALSAR and NLIU Bhopal v. NLU Jodhpur has been going on since 2004. Please see LST forums for that. No debate can settle it. Insist on a coin toss, instead.</span>PS (p) Post script for parents: In case you are worried about recruitments, click here to know everything about it. The link is a Bar and Bench’s (an online legal publication) analysis.
Please please please. The point of the post is not to rank colleges, though I have. The point is: Some of these colleges are running so close, that it is impossible to take a decision. The best thing (honestly and in all sincerity) is: toss a coin.
Comments
[He might not be as dynamic as Mr. M P Singh BUT he does gives us all the opportunities to go to whatever competitions and stuff we want to go to ( And refunds travel too :P ) We don't really have to face him everyday. In my one year so far I have seen him just about 10 times.]
PLEASE ANSWER!
Truly,
A NALSARite
NALSAR should realize that there is still a difference between them and NLS.
Some NALSAR first years are lobbying to make people opt for their college instead.
Does a leader have an impact over the organisation?
We all know what a Madhava Menon or a Ranbir Singh can do.
A VC can turnaround many a thing (for good or for worse): course strucure and syllabus, faculty recruitments, student discipline, academic & co-curricular activities etc.
@ Kian: can't we now use the 'reply' or 'format' options?
2. VC does not determine a law school. Especially one like Nalsar or NLS which has already reached a certain place. According to your logic NLS too should have gone down during the not so bright VCs' regimes.
3. The much touted NUJS VC's management of this year's CLAT is proof enough.
4.Location. - After 5 years you will be spending your lives in polluted cities anyway. Why not stay at a place with a beautiful lake and rocks in the surrounding. Also Karkhana is 20 mins from Nalsar where you have all your KFCs and McD's as well as a theatre.
5. NUJS can stop this misinformation campaign about other law schools. Claim that you are the best. Stop claiming someone else is not so good.
6. The competition has always been NLS vs. Nalsar. You are nowhere. Stop butting in like a child who doesn't like the silent treatment. *
- A NALSARITE FOR LIFE.
But that hasn't realy affected anything. :/
See, I don't want to make it a ridiculous blame game and mud slinging...I just wanted to make a point that our bad VC has nothing to do with our performance.
LAW SCHOOL does not depend on its VC BUT its the students!
On this, I can talk only about NUJS:
MP Singh (he is retiring soon) brought a culture of academic independence. That is why eminent academicians wanted to join NUJS.
You teach; go to whichever conference you want; write whatever papers you want. The freedom extended to the structure of the credit courses, optional courses etc. Good, young, foreign qualified faculty loved it!
---
NALSAR took a lead over NUJS when Ranbir Singh was on. Dynamic students with a dynamic mentor challenged the best. (They still do).
His successor (as you yourself point out) isn't that dynamic.
Also, NALSAR, because it was lead by Ranbir Singh since inception, suffered from this leadership shift more. When he went, people (faculty and mangement) looked at each other and didn't know what to do next.
To make it more dynamic: the father had died and the family was stunned!
NUJS has, on the other hand, had 3 VCs and is less prone to ill affects of leadership changes. It's development has not been personality driven.
---
At the same time; students at NALSAR continue to get the best placements, give India an annual Rhodes Scholar and well, top the MPL too!
That is why the scores read: NUJS: 755- NALSAR: 755.
1. You answer yourself.
2. Read my comment above.
3. MP Singh didn't 'manage' CLAT. The CLAT committee did.
4. Polluted, you say that. Generally people say this: the cultural capital, the land of the intellectuals! Also Bandhs!
Do some readings man: Here is Paul Graham on "Cities and Ambition" http://www.paulgraham.com/cities.html
5/6.- EVERYONE OF US SPREADS MISINFORMATION. And well being anonymous, you can go and on spreading just that!
I tried to back my post up with realistic numbers, so that it could be of some help to people.
Could you please point out the problems you have with my calculation and thus prove the misinformation?
And well, NLS is unbeatable. You know that! We are all followers and will always be. Its a riht NLS earned by virture of its birth.
Some college might challenge its supremacy, but we all have a long way to go for that! And Oh! come on! Long since 2004 (see LST forums) the debate has been (and always will be) NALSAR v. NUJS.
You are acting like a child whoz being told that he is short! Ha!
Also, by being anonymous, you can go on singing praises for NALSAR; I being non-anonymous have to remain objective; so I'll rest my case here.
---
Didn't people who are commenting as NALSARites get the point of this post?
Take this to be a post script: I agree that students have largely shaped the NLUs. But mentors like Menon and Ranbir Singh do complement the students' efforts.
Please try to get the point of this post. IT IS NOT ABOUT NUJS and NALSAR.
1. "NALSAR's location is not that bad".
I told him that NUJS is in a fantastic location. He agreed with that.
2. "NALSAR has lost only 2 faculty members due to Ranbir Singh's departure".
All right. At the same time NUJS has in the last 2 years being very proactive in faculty recruitment.
He agreed with that too.
PS- Please don't pick and choose some words in this post. Please don't nitpick. Read the post in its entirety.
Why exactly is NLSIU Bangalore "unbeatable" and "its a right NLS earned by virture of its birth", as you say above?
I accept that NLS has a stronger alumni network, which translates into easier grad jobs and internships (although really there is very little in those stakes between the top colleges).
Perhaps slightly smarter students get to NLS by virtue of having scored a point or two more on one multiple choice test years ago and it having higher preference.
Being based in a city with more high paying legal jobs than say Kolkata, or Hyderabad also helps.
But apart from that, how is NLS' superiority over other law schools inherent, self-evident or anything other than a self-propagating idea caused by the incumbent advantage of having more alumni and being the status quo?
Are NLS faculty any better? Is their system of teaching any better? Are the facilities better? Are the budgets larger? Are the student representative bodies and organisations better?
The alumni difference is decreasing year by year, and if another college were shown to impart a better education, could this not change overnight, particularly if in future one or two big CLAT training centres decided they thought that NLS was number two?
Would be interested in your views, because I have not heard any good arguments so far that NLS is self-evidently superior to other colleges.
I have enabled formatting (bold, quotes, smileys etc now). Threading (e.g. replies to earlier posts) will take a bit more work so the existing numbering of comments don't go all screwy...
Its meant for you guys who took CLAT...am glad that you liked!
I don't see any point in this useless fight...
All the tier one colleges are almost the same...
There is NO reason why NLSIU should be privileged!
[b]If you go through any report on legal education[/b] (Bar Council, UGC etc.) it will go something like this: "[i]Then there are colleges like NALSAR, NUJS...which are carrying forward the tradition of the Bangalore Law School...[/i]".
[b]If you happen to ever hear Moily or any other big shot on legal education,[/b] he/she will say, "[i]Your college is doing extremely well, carrying on from the Bangalore Law School...[/i]".
Sometimes when a college calls the HR for internships, here is how it goes "[i]Good afternoon Sir! We are calling from NUJS, Kolkt[/i]a".
[b]HR[/b]: [i]What? Netaji Subhash Chadra Bose[/i]?
No sir, the National Law School in Kolkata.
[b]HR[/b]: [i]Oh Ok[/i]!
You see, (let me get philosophical) colleges like NALSAR and NUJS and others carry the "soul" of NLS. We originated from it. NLS is the leader, we are the followers.
The superiority does not exist in the physical realm (student quality, faculty, placements) but in the minds of the people. Its very very difficult to beat that. And you can't wish it away!
---
I know these arguments are not good, but still, am reading some philosophical stuff these days and hence the ruminations! Haha!
---
Also, there is just one big law coaching institution: LST. LST was founded by people from NLSIU. So... :)
You can get a 12 lacs per annum package (payed by Amarchand, Khaitan, S&R, Luthra, AZB etc) by studying in any of the colleges mentioned by you.
Cheers.
PS- NLIU Bhopal, NLU Jodhpur and NLU Delhi are the best India has to offer; students there will surely (if they work hard and make good choices) get the best placements!
THIS POSTS CLEARLY IS A VERY APT EXAMPLE OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
KIAN YOU SHOULD THINK OF CENSORING SOME PARTS OF IT FOR MISLEADING PEOPLE AND FAVOURITISM TOWARDS CERTAIN PLACES.
SHARING YOUR OPINION IS FINE BUT NOT ONE DAY BEFORE THE COUNSELLING BY TELLING PEOPLE TO TOSS A COIN WHERE THE CLEAR FAVOURITE IS NALSAR AMONG ALL STUDENTS IN THE GUISE OF 'HELPING THEM' IS NOT. NALSAR HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN THE 2ND SPOT, SO THEN WHY TOSS MY FRIEND?
ACADEMICS, MOOTING ET AL NALSAR HAS THE UPPRER HAND AND RULES THE ROSTER.
I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO WAS TRANSFERRED FROM NUJS TO NALSAR PREVIOUSLY AND HAVING SEEN BOTH THE PLACES I COMMENT.
AND FRANKLY (BY YOUR OWN ANALYSIS) I'D MUCH RATHER GO FOR A SEMESTER EXCHANGE ABROAD TO A FOREIGN UNIVERSITY AND GET RHODES AND A BETTER JOB AND STUDY AMONG STUDENTS WHO ARE MORE INTELLECTUALLY ORIENTED, THAN BE IN A BETTER 'LOCATION' LAW SCHOOL AND PARTY. LIKE THAT WILL PAY OFF IN THE LONG RUN.
AS FAR AS FACULTY GOES NALSAR HAS BOTH GOOD TEACHERS AND BAD TEACHERS, THE SAME IS THE CASE WITH NUJS, EVERYONE IN NUJS IS NOT PATHBREAKING AND GODLY. MY FRIENDS IN NUJS TOLD ME ABOUT THE PATHETIC TEACHERS (AND TOILETS) (NOT TO MENTION WASHING YOUR PLATES, I'D RATHER ATTEND CLASSES AFTER BREAKFAST THAN GET MY HANDS MESSY AND WASTE TIME WASHING MY PLATES)
ABOUT THE VC, IN BOTH THE PLACES THEY'LL RETIRES.
NALSAR'S VC HAS ANOTHER 1 YEAR LEFT. THESE NEW STUDENTS HAVE TO SPEND 5 YEARS HERE.
[b]IF THIS IS NALSAR UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF A 'BAD' VC IMAGINE ITS PLACE WITH A 'GOOD' VC.
[/b]
WITH THAT I END.
In this case, Poet should perhaps have added a clear disclaimer that he is an NUJS student, although most regulars on the site would be aware of that anyway.
And Mr @22 - please do not post in ALL CAPS IN FUTURE, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO READ WITHOUT CAUSING A HEADACHE AND LOOKS REALLY SHOUTY.
Shouting doesn't make your arguments better or worse.
We are neck to neck on mooting! MPL is a clear testimony to that. And academics? How do you measure that?
NUJS now has a much better faculty; you know that! I've written in my post, that people can check the college websites for that.
And well, don't bring parties and washing plates into picture; these are silly, frivolous issues!
AND I AM NOT SUGGESTING TOSSING A COIN, SETH GODIN IS. Please get to know who Seth Godin is.
[i]"I am a student at NUJS, so I might have a bias towards it. But I’ll try to be as objective as possible and rely on facts. I am also aware of the other type of fallacy: to show to others that I am not biased, I might end up favouring NALSAR.
I’ll take care of both"[/i].
And well @ 22: Don't you have a clear conflict of interest? Since you are from NALSAR and voicing opinions for it?
[b]On academics:[/b] The Lawyer's Update Magazine which lists a detailed criteria of rankings [b]placed NUJS at:[/b]
1st rank in academics
2nd rank overall
[b]NALSAR was placed at:[/b]
4th rank in academics
3rd rank overall
Please see the link here http://www.lawyersupdate.co.in/LU/9/1148.asp. It clearly reflects the 'recruitment of good faculty' and 'academic innovations' I've talked about in this post.
"NUJS can stop this misinformation campaign about other law schools. Claim that you are the best. Stop claiming someone else is not so good." And you say this coming from a college whose first years have turned from being clat coaches to lobbyists, who are hell bent on maligning NLSIU to ensure that the best CLAT rankers come to NALSAR?
C'mon! Tell them to get a life! This just makes you the butt of all jokes in the law school circuit. Tell them to leave the innocent (and ignorant) CLAT aspirants alone when it comes to choosing their college and revert back to the good work those kids were doing in helping the exam-takers prepare.
And just btw, if it's not obvious enough, NLSIU stands all! Such frivolous attempts by NALSAR first years won't make any difference to it.
@poet:
Brilliant post! Legal Poet [b]II[/b] is just giving it's predecessor some stiff competition it seems! :D
the people at clatgyan dont give any advice unless asked..and they clearly say that their views might be biased..i had a chat with them, and they said nothing malicious about nlsiu..in fact they refuse to publish their own rank list..
hahaha!
Who is spreading the misinformation! Its you NALSARats. CLATGYAN IS [...] in the world. They have good content but are very very BIASED towards NALSAR.
nalsarites have every right to believe that they are arguably the best..
nalsar has beaten nlsiu at mpl consistently and comprehensively for 2 years..
[b]Lawyer's update, a leading industry publication ranked NUJS at RANK 1 in Academics.[/b] See this http://www.lawyersupdate.co.in/LU/9/1148.asp.
[b]Also, NUJS' Law journal is the best law journal is India[/b]. The Washington and Lee University School of Law ranking of law journals ranks NUJS Law Review the highest in India. Please see here ( http://lawlib.wlu.edu/LJ )
NALSAR is pure jealous of NUJS' growth. NUJS is on upswing, NALSAR is on decline!
and very soon delhi will too.
one of which is performance in moots.
i quoted mpl ranks just to explain to you why nalsarites might think that they are at ARGUABLY the best law school.
so would people at nujs.
the days of nls' domination are over.
personally, my 1st choice is nls bangalore.
Jisko jahan jaana hai wo toh apni marzi se hi jayega, tum jitna chaho apna khurafati dimaag laga lo.
Kya be legal poet tujhse ye umeed nahi thi. Sabko pata hai kaun kya hai aur itni cheap publicity ki jaroorat nahi hai NUJS ko.
To bhai log lage raho. :)
Apart from students, there is nothing else that sperates these institutions. All these institutions have average faculty! In fact, NUJS is much better in terms of faculty. It is also not true to say that NLASR had great faculty at the time of Ranvir Singh. They more or less had the same faculty that they have today. As regards NLS faculty lesser said is better. There is not even one faculty, I repeat not even one faculty in NLS that has any international standing in legal academics or has produced any worthwhile world class research.
It is important for us to recognize that students come and go but faculty stays longer... and thus it is the quality of faculty that should determine the character of the institution.
Further, I pity those who think that VCs play no role in law schools. We need dynamic VCs who have outstanding academic credentials. With all due resepct to Prof Menon and Prof Ranvir Singh - they were great administrators but not great academicians. You need to people who have both these qualities to head law schools and only then legal academics will be able to acctract good faculty.
many ppl dropped nls for nlud in 2010 , who cares nalsar and nujs......... regarding placement nlud is going 2 break all sorts of record when its 1st batch will graduate.......we will be the most heavely payed lawers........ nlud 1st choice mannnnnn..........
I do find it fascinating, without taking any names, how many Indian law students manage to prosper and somehow get a quality education [i]in spite[/i] of their college/VC.
Secondly , My rank is good enough to get me GNLU and HNLU.
out of the both which one should i opt for ??
PS- It would be completely awesome if you could do a detailed comparison as you did b/w NALSAR and NUJS on different aspects. ( Though i understand it may not be worth your time, but it would be of lots of help to few students like me )
Thanking you in Advance
HNLU is not doing as well as it should have. The VC fiasco is well known. Also, the placements and faculty are not really upto the mark.
Its a good college; but out of HNLU and GNLU; it will be GNLU!
I can't do a detailed analysis, because I don't know enough of these colleges.
[b]49-[/b] Am glad that you found this useful. I have now done the HNLU v. GNLU debate too. My answer was there in the post earlier too; I had ranked GNLU over HNLU. I have now explained that.
Second, as far as recruitments go, the number of people in Amarchand obviously matters, but it also matters as to where the "rest" go, as it seems, Nalsar's got proportionately better recruitments (something that has been acknowledged by you :)).
--
Like a CG student of ours said, we need to move away from "rivalry and towards brotherhood". That's like expecting the Taliban to talk world peace. But there's always something we can do: agree to disagree.
--
@28: Really? Did you notice the word 'arguably' there. EVERY student will call his/her law school the best, and should, IMO, do that. That is all CG did. If you notice something, we still get the (second) best students from CLAT. CG has never asked students to prefer NALSAR over NLS. In our personal capacities as mentors, we did talk to our own favorites and helped them make an informed decision. You will soon see that NLS's list will be full of CG students.
@34: Good. But that is not the sole criterion for deciding where you'd want to go.
--
[b]Tanuj,[/b] I have no locus to talk on preferences, honestly. And my comment essentially was intended to disagree with your method rather than your post.
When we say Shreya Atre won Rhodes Scholarship, we say it was her effort and capability. But, we also say that "NALSAR Student". Same in the case of Sachin Malhan,
Basically, name of the college will always with a student because most of the times he is able to do such things from the environment which he gets in his college.
As far as recruitment goes firms like Khaitan, Amarchand, Luthra and Trilegal seem to prefer NUJS students more. Do see the facts available on LegallyIndia.
I put NALSAR at 200 and NUJS at 190 (on recruitment points) so that both colleges end up having the same total (I fell to the fallacy, you see).
Frankly, the top 50-60 odd people at NLS-NUJS-NALSAR all get the same, top placements! The 5-6 top tier firms take dozens of students from each college.
[b]Entrepreneurship:[/b]
NUJS has that culture of academic independence and freedom which encourages independence. Students run and manage it's many societies and committees which again bolsters self enterprise.
It sort of also has a [b]ripple effect[/b]: one entrepreneur gives rise to another; motivation and mentorship is at work here. Just like Pakistan seems to produce quality fast bowlers and India good batsmen!
Anyway, I cleared CLAT and should manage to get NUJS. On the other hand, I also cleared the AILET-2011 and have NLU-Delhi on the platter.
Whilst NUJS is obviously currently better than NLU-D, I'm getting a lot of opinions (from credible sources) urging me to pick NLU-D over NUJS owing to its growth potential in the next 5years. Its expected, by many, to exceed NUJS & NALSAR. And despite being just 3yrs old, its also in the running for the MPL this year and is doing phenomenally well; they reached the round of 16 in the World Rounds of Jessup! 2 of its students of won Leiden LLM scholarships in Air & Space law. Astonishing mooting achievements, all by 2nd and 3rd year students. Moreover, it has a MUCH better infrastructure. Its in Delhi and thus has a proximity to the High & Supreme courts, as well as ILI and HQs of all makor firms. Not to mention, Ranbir Singh as VC, and a really good faculty. NUJS, on the other hand, has the best faculty in India. An eminent alumni. And a network of alumni that's reasonably active in placement and internship; basically, an edge in sheer employability. Not to mention the academic freedom the direction as you mentioned. BUT, as you said, MP Singh will soon retire.
PLEASE, give me an objective analysis and your opinion? I'd rather not toss a coin.
For the record, I realize the difference in life one will have, especially since Delhi is in Dwarka and its curfew is 6pm. I have good friends in both college, and NUJS beats Delhi in the respect hands down, though its not the primary factor for me.
and abt faculty and placements......don't forget that great mentors like I.P.Messi, V.K. Dixit, G.V.Ajappa were all those who has made HNLU what it is today......and placements,,,we must inform you that even after the VC fiasco we have had great placements like in amarchand,AZB,ICICI,Pngea3and Platinum Partners.
[b]@ 58-[/b] Choose NUJS for now. When NLUD's first batch gets recruited; we can make comparisons then. Its slotted to do as well as the top 5; but it would be wise to go for a more established institution.
[b]Recruitment (2010)[/b]:
[b]Law firms:[/b]
NUJS- 38
NLSIU- 31
NALSAR-22
[b]Amarchand:[/b] 12 from NUJS, 12 from NLSIU, 11 from NALSAR
[b]Luthra: [/b]5 from NUJS, 6 from NLSIU, 7 from NALSAR
[b]Trilegal:[/b] 7 from NUJS
[b]Crawford Bailey:[/b] 6 from NLSIU
[b]Companies[/b]
NUJS-13
NLSIU-16
NALSAR-21
[b]ICICI:[/b] 2 from NUJS, 4 from NLSIU, 4 from NALSAR
[b]SAIL:[/b] 4 from NUJS, 1 from NLSIU, 4 from NALSAR
[b]Foreign Law Firms:[/b]
3 from NUJS, 4 from NALSAR, 9 from NLSIU
So yes, as I was pointing out; the recruitments are very similar in each of these colleges. So Aymen: who got 'proportionately' better recruitments?
Here is the link (instead of relying on me, please do your own research):
http://www.barandbench.com/brief/9/809/377-choose-law-firms-209-choose-in-house-and-98-choose-lit-career-paths-of-nlsiu-nalsar-and-nujs-graduates
Thanks.
Member, RCC, HNLU.
[b]The placements: [/b]I am following Legallyindia's wiki page. It says 2 in Amarchand and one each in AZB and Platinum. And then except for 3 in ICICI, the rest are low ranked firms and some unheard of places too!
[b]I have done enough research [/b]to say that HNLU is a good institution and also that it stands below GNLU in the peking order.
But still: the way HNLU students took fight to the administration and finally got the erring VC removed was sensational! Again, it shows the dynamism of the student body, a reason why most colleges in India continue to do well despite having a lot of problems to deal with!
Is there an underlying presumption that MPites are not as good as the students from other parts of India? Even if the students are being alloted seats under the state quota, some things ought to be remembered-
(1) "THEY HAVE ALSO CLEARED CLAT", they are hardly 2 or 3 marks below those who have opted for NLS or NALSAR.
(2) Even NALSAR has state quota, then why is it not a turn off there? And even if there is no apparent quota,you can very easily find out that the majority is from that state only in which the school is located.
NLIU just has the disadvantage of "being located in a city where you have only one Mall and 'only' 5 CCD's". Such arguments are totally ridiculous!
I am no one to comment on other law schools, their infrastructure, faculty etc because I have never been there. (And ofcourse, grass is always greener on the other side) but I would definitely say that NLIU is not as low on the Score sheet as it is projected to be.
Right. So is it that you only count the AMSS' and the AZB's Are you saying that at other law schools there are no students who are placed at mid-tier firms, that's if we assume places like Vaish (yes the tax biggie) fall under that rung? Let's play on the simple level playground of stats please.
And FYI- Prof. Massey has always been a visiting faculty, both at HNLU and later at NLUJ. He has now gone back to Shimla where he teaches at the HP University. However he was a predominant part of the early building years at HNLU, along with the other names mentioned by #59.
Also, I missed out on your comment on the infra. So here goes- Do the infra comparison by simply looking at the CLAT Brochure or even the respective websites (these have to be your primary sources!).
http://www.clat.ac.in/images/pdf/university_brochures/gnlu.pdf
http://www.clat.ac.in/images/pdf/university_brochures/hnlu.pdf
Let me add to the gyaan basket- this infra was provided to us immediately after the strike (as a resultant of the same). We have a fully functional 64 acre campus, as opposed to GNLU's final campus, which is supposed to finally come up only at the end of this year. (ref. 'Infra' -last bullet point in this years CLAT brochure)
My intention here is not to spark off a GNLU-HNLU debate; I’m merely clarifying certain facts. At times wrong facts fly beyond control and this may not be the apt for a for faking news. More so, I do believe that none is better and nor is any worse off either, it’s ultimately a matter of personal preference and each student must weigh pros and cons after having carefully looked through various parameters of judgment.
I was just quoting another NLUite.
And anyway, the controversy doesn't revolve around that point. It was just an illustration of redundant reasons for placing NLIU on lower ranks.
Even, if this diversity-rank proportionality rule applies then why does this apply only to NLIU and not to NALSAR, ILS etc?
P.S.- A [i]Pradeshi[/i] is a [i]Bhartiya[/i] as well.
NLIU Bhopal has 50% reservation buddy; NALSAR is just fine at 20%; which is OK since in turn they get enormous state funds too.
If all are from the same background and upbringing, we think in the same way, argue in the same way and reach the same conclusions. [b]It is duller to be in a homogenous group.[/b]
If all dress the same way and talk the same way and talk about the same things; [b]life is dull mate![/b]
[b]40 students from one state and 40 from the rest:[/b] it reduces diversity and it mars the cosmopolitan culture.
NLIU Bhopal has 50% reservation buddy; NALSAR is just fine at 20%; which is OK since in turn they get enormous state funds too.
And very importantly, it talks about the coin flip which is a better dispute-settler than reading mindless debates on online social forums.
I never knew that the border between two states of the same country makes THAT BIG A DIFFERENCE in upbringing and thoughts. woha! I bow down to you observations my friend.
Being a domicile of one state doesn't mean that you should've lived in that particular state for 17-18 years. Even if one has done his 2 from MP,he/she will be the domicile of MP albeit he/she was born and brought up, let say, in Delhi.
FYI, approximately 40-45% of the people who have come from MP quota in NLIU, are not from MP. They are there just because they were in MP ONCE UPON A TIME for a year or so and they got the domicile certificate.
'dress same way'-'dull life'-funds---are these the parameters for ranking a NATIONAL law school? :O
And see NLIU Bhopal's placement too. It's is pathetic. [b]Who will want to come to NLIU Bhopal when you can't even place students??[/b]
1. Strike- There are something which are done for good. For eg India after a revolution got independence from bad british rule in the same way HNLU students had to remove the corrupt VC. How can it be wrong??
2. Infrastructure- GNLU new campus has still not become operational how can this writer compare it with HNLU established campus yes there are some deficiences such as roads are not built but because of that the awesome infrastructure of HNLU cannot be refuted. If i am not wrong every HNLUiite gets a single room from his 1st yr.
3. Placements- Mr. Writer please check the records HNLU has done much better than GNLU when it comes to placements issue. No of HNLU students placed are more than GNLU student. Dont believe me take out the ratio and enjoy.
4. Moot Courts- Mr. Writer has very convinently ignored moot court exercises or competitions which every law aspirant dreams to do it. If you see the MPL ranking list HNLU is among the top one's.
[b]2. Infrastructure:[/b] Infrastructure doesn't mean whether you get single rooms or not. Come on!
BTW the talks of both GNLU and HNLU' campus coming up has been going since 2006. Till now they have not been constructed. So let us wait and watch.
3. [b]Placements[/b]: I have not only considered the ratio but also the quality of the placements. I stand by what I've said.
4. [b]Moot courts: [/b] Why do you want to consider that? If you want to, why not also consider student' research and publications? Or debate' performances?
I maintain; HNLU is good, GNLU is better. (My opinion).
I guess Bhopal does better !!
[b]Moots[/b]: This year HNLU did well. Conrats! Last year GNLU was placed at 7th position, HNLU was 20th. University Institute of Laws PURC, Ludhiana was ranked higher than HNLU. So well...
Also, if student achievements like moots be seriously considered for rankings, shouldn't [b]publications in law journals[/b] be also a criteria? Add to that debates and even sports and whatever...
If you believe in these stupid surveys in one survey they didnt include nujs kolkatta where you are from then do u believe in that?
[u]http://www.legallyindia.com/wiki/MPL_2_season_standings[/u]
http://www.legallyindia.com/20100520849/Law-schools/hnlu-recruitment-edges-up-to-61-azb-other-top-firms-swear-by-school
http://www.legallyindia.com/wiki/Indian_Law_Schools_-_Campus_Recruitments,_2010-2011#HNLU_Raipur
And yes, I've through the [b]recruitment stats[/b] too. Good, but nothing great.
And no, I don't rely on surveys ever. Actually the thing is the HNLU students I've talked to have told me that the [b]faculty is pathetic [/b]and (the 1st years told me) that [b]they'd be taking CLAT again[/b]. So well...
Also, in case you value [b]individual freedom[/b]; while jobs (most of them) stand for conformity and resistance and fitting in; entrepreneurship stands for creation and freedom and doing what you love.
An institution which encourages entrepreneurs or a student culture which promotes it; is a good thing to have.
PS- [b]When you have fit in, what option do you have?[/b]
Presumably people studying law wish to learn the law, and then may/ may not wish to contribute to the society, economy etc. Presumably people who work with or hire students from a good law school would like to know that students from a particular law school are likely to have certain legal skills (even if their capacity to contribute to society/ the economy is unknown).
I don't believe any institution discourages entrepreneurs, or that the other top law universities insist that its students to join law firms. But I take your point about non-conformism being a good thing. So if it is non-conformism that we are looking at, let us look properly - let us count all the photographers, authors, journalists, NGO founders, artists, civil servants, teachers, IGO/ NGO employees and yes even litigators - and not just a sub section of people who did something different.
When we are looking at a tolerant student culture, let us ask questions like how many openly gay students do you have? Can someone come out of the closet at your law school and have their courage and exercise of [b]individual freedom[/b] applauded or would they be in danger of persecution?
If what you say is true, then undoubtedly NUJS scores with regard to faculty, inclusive of the VC. Theirs is great, I had the opportunity to hear him speak at one of our seminars.
The VC's job is not to just give you permissions for outings and refund your money. Come on, I'm sure you can give a VC more credit than that!
Indian law schools pride themselves on creating law students who are [b]social engineers[/b]. So well; that is where an entrepreneurial student community scores more points!
You are confusing [b]non-conformism with entrepreneurship[/b]. Though I like both.
[b]On issue of gays etc:[/b] NUJS law journal took out a special issue after the Naz judgment; that speaks volumes for what freedoms it stands for. We value diversity, generally (IDIA).
I have got an 'averagely decent' rank in CLAT and may get GNLU,HNLU,RMNLU and ofcourse kochi,patiala,punjab too.
BUT Lucknow is nearer to my hometown. And that is why i was considering to give it a preference over GNLU. Do i sound mentally unsound??
More info on RMNLU maybe by an alumni or anyone would be of great help..:)
Well, as for Jodhpur, i am in fifth year now and it is not as bad as people make out of it, individually or in comparison.
Infrastructure is good and is getting better, Prof. Mathur has made a sweeping change to the way the campus looks and it is in a positive sense. Placements, things are changing this year and have been changing, even when everyone was affected by the recession, we had good ones. The mess, i personally think is the best in Jodhpur amongst law schools. Cheaper place and you get as much as you want out of Jodhpur as any other city. Most importantly hop onto a bus and reach home in 7 hours for you, thats the longest :). Choice though is yours.
There should be no doubt as to where to go.
Also, I feel this piece is honest and objective; at may places I saw Poet praising NALSAR too.
I'm a first year student at NLU Jodhpur, now passing into the 2nd, and I will have to say that NLU has changed my life, for the better! And to the most part I would attribute that to the single room accommodation that we are provided with here. It might sound funny, and so did I a year back, but having your own room is the most important thing to developing a person's individuality, according to me. You get to do stuff you have always wished you could, you get to be non-conformist, you get to be YOU. Of course, the decision is yours. And choosing one college over the other for the sole reason you get your own room is unheard of and also stupid. But don't discount that factor!
Congrats! Cheers :D
In NUJS 2 people stay in a room for the 1st year; for next 4 years they enjoy single private rooms!
wasn't there a shortage of space in the girls hostel?
93 Allow me to list out all advantages of taking admission in NLU Jodhpur (from a students point of view),
1) like 97 said, NLU Jodhpur has single room accommodations, the advantages of which you will understand once you have been in a hostel.
2) The mess is in fact the best among all the National Law Universities across the country.
3) The campus is not as arid as one might imagine it to be. 4) The weather though hot, is very pleasant at nights.
5) You will never get as much freedom anywhere in any NLU as u get in NLU Jodhpur.
6) You are allowed to keep coolers, refrigerators, washing machines and pretty much anything (which is not allowed anywhere).
7) The infrastructure is good and Justice Mathur (nt prof.) has infact changed a lot (positively).
8) Its not far away from the city either, about 10 kms away from the railway station.
9) You get NLU discounts in the city. etc etc.
1. all the students are not placed. placements are 75%.
2. big indian law firms recruit in bulk only from nlsiu, nalsar and nujs.
3. no foreign firms visit NLU Jodhpur.
4. the faculty is very bad.
5. jodhpur roasts you during the day and freezes you during nights.
6. jodhpur is not bangalore or calcutta. jodhpur is jodhpur!
1) all students are not placed :- out of the 60 who sat for placements this year, 56 gt placed. And frankly every college does have students who DO NOT get placed. No college will ever guarantee you 100% placements. (http://www.legallyindia.com/201106062142/Law-firms/nlu-jodhpur-hits-back-with-56-desk-jobs-14-luthra-one-firang-job)
2) Big law firms recruit in bulk only from B'lore, calcautta r Hyderabad:- If u see the stats in the above link, you will find that Luthra picked 14 students. 14 out of 60 is a bulk i would say.
3) No foreign law firm ever visits Jodhpur:- If you did actually visit the NLU Jodhpur site, you find there the list of foreign and domestic law firms and corporates that recruit from NLU Jodhpur (http://www.nlujodhpur.ac.in/placement.php this should help you out).
4) The faculty is very bad:- Every college has its share of bad profs, attending whose classes need miraculous amounts of will power and every college has the amazing professors who will leave you awe struck by the time their lecture ends. NLU Jodhpur is no different.
5) NLU Jodhpur roasts you during the day and freezes you at night:- It is not built on sand dunes, you need to be in the actual desert for that to happen. The nearest sand dunes are about 42 kms away. Thats why I say that Jodhpur is hot during the day but pleasant during the nights. ( The semester system ensures that students don't have to face the worst of the Jodhpur sun, as they get leaves in May - June)
6) Yes, I know Jodhpur is not Bangalore/ Calcutta, and that also means that Bangalore/Calcutta are not Jodhpur. Every place and college has its plus and negatives and your last point is in fact just prejudice taking hold of your better judgment.
1. Placements are nearly 100%. Check out the NLU Jodhpur website.Egregious students will not get jobs in NLU, agreed. But the very same level of egregious students from NLS will be fired very soon, should they be picked up by a big firm.
2. http://www.legallyindia.com/201106062142/Law-firms/nlu-jodhpur-hits-back-with-56-desk-jobs-14-luthra-one-firang-job
'nuff said.
3. Refer the above link. Allen & Overy visits NLU every year.
4. Faculty is average. But that problem is faced in every law school. Yes, NUJS faculty is better, or so I have heard.
5. People have coolers in their rooms, the classrooms and the library is fully air conditioned . Jodhpur freezes during the night only in winters and a cheap heater will more than suffice.
6. Jodhpur is not Banglore or Calcutta. Neither is Nagarbhavi or Salt Lake. Atleast NLU is located VERY close to the city.
I wanted some advice regarding which college i should choose between NALSAR , NUJS , NLIU Bhopal ? I'd comfortably get all 3. Kindly compare them on the basis of the faculty , infrastructure , placements and political activity.
I am very undecided because I DONT want to go to NALSAR because ,well despite being in my home town it's far away from Delhi where i currently live and also many relatives stay there and so does my brother in the BITS Campus which is just 3-4 kms away ! However i also do want to go there because it's the 2nd best law college in the country ( or so is often told ) with great infra and placements (so i've heard).
NUJS well , Messi is coming to Kolkata , it's not my hometown and it's a overnight journey from Delhi are the reasons why I'd like to go there. On the other hand , i'm not sure how well it compares vis-a vis Hyderabad which has a bigger and beter campus which better placements ( ?? )
And NLIU Bhopal , it's decent enough , despite the fact that placements are not as good . However the political party i support(BJP) and aspire to join is said to be very very active there , which has a very strong appeal to me. Also , it's only an overnight journey from Delhi so again another plus point.
However will the course load be heavy in Bhopal , seeing that they follow the trimester system because I want lots of free time because as a Science student , i'm also passionate about Sciences and wish to keep expanding my knowledge and keep in touch with P-C-M as well , and be as good as any IIT-ian graduate when I graduate.
I want a dispassionate and honest and unprejudiced answer please !!! And also won't your chances of a good placement improve if and only if you do well in the college you go to irrespective of which college you go to in the top 4 law colleges in India ? Because wouldn't a brilliant student of NALSAR earn around the same amount as a brilliant student of Bhopal ?
Infrastructure- Nalsar wins
Placements- NUJS and Nalsar are at par (Not just this year's but the general placement record is being considered)
Political activity- NUJS wins for having maximum student politics (which is not a bad thing at all- it shows the students have freedom) Nalsar wins for near complete lack of it (which is not a bad thing either since it ensures students remain focussed on academics and other more relevant things)
Disclaimer: None of the political activities at any law school have any connection with mainstream political parties like BJP and Congress.
Like if in NUJS - Left or Trinamool or Congress ?
In NALSAR - TDP , Congress or well , TRS ?
IN NLIU - BJP or Congress ?
...and wat should b my preferences if i got to choose between nluo and last three colleges from clat and why?
Bottomline: If you are really looking for a college that will serve as a platform for you to join a political party, CLAT colleges might not be the right place for you. The student bodies there are too cosmopolitan and too busy with other things to care about and participate in the state's politics.
And also will law after engineering - as in graduating from IIT or BITS and then a possible PG from Faculty of Law , Delhi University , will it let me be a praticising lawyer ?
Being cosmopolitan have to do with joining a political party !! Politics is intrinsically not divisive !!!
Look at DU , they are very active politically , but at the same time DU has one of the best college cultures in India and is at the same time cosmopolitan !!!
isnt it supposed to be the opposite?
this looks like(note that i said "looks like"...not "i believe is") an attempt by an NUJS student to somehow manage to rate his college at par with a college that is better at most things that matter, except the faculty(and so ive heard)
that way if i was a NALSAR student i could just introduce a rating for "food" and apparently NALSAR would win hands down.
i dont study at any of the 2 said colleges, but it is general perception that NALSAR is better than NUJS and NLSIU better than NALSAR. i havent heard a single person who isnt studying at NUJS say that NUJS is better than NALSAR(im not counting begalis here...just as i wouldnt count telugus who said NALSAR was better)
obviously a student at any school/college thinks/likes to think that his school/college is the best...so i think it was just plain wrong for "legal poet" to write this article at this time(whichever college is better...the timing is certainly wrong)....just as wrong as the NALSAR students lobbying for the toppers to join their college.
is there a change in ur preference list?