The last judgment: Maharashtra kills Yakub Memon, 4th execution in 15 years #RIP [UPDATE-3]

Yakub Memon, convicted in the March 12, 1993 Mumbai bomb blasts, was hanged till death at the Nagpur Central Jail in Maharashtra today morning, officials said.

He was sent to the gallows - on his 54th birthday on Thursday - after several of his court appeals and clemency petitions were rejected by various courts, including the Bombay high court, the Supreme Court, the Maharashtra governor and the president of India.

Memon was hanged at 6.35 a.m on his 54th birthday. A medical team at the jail pronounced him dead a short while later.

His body was sent for an autopsy by a medical team from a Nagpur government hospital, before being cleared for the last rites.

Update 3: Initially, the jail authorities were not inclined to hand over the body and planned to perform the last rites in an isolated spot in the jail campus. After the hanging, Memon’s brother Sulaiman submitted an application to the jail authorities, demanding handing over of the body to enable them perform the last rites in Mumbai.

The request was immediately processed and permission - with stringent conditions - was granted and the body handed over. It was taken to Nagpur airport and flowing in an air ambulance for the funeral rites scheduled on Thursday evening.

A group of lawyers - including Anand Grover, Prashant Bhushan, Nitya Ramakrishnan, Yug Chaudhary, Vrinda Grover and Rishabh Sancheti, with advocate-on-record Anindita Pujari - had tried unsuccessfully in the night to obtain a last-ditch stay from Chief Justice of India (CJI) HL Dattu at his residence challenging the President’s rejection of his final mercy petition earlier that same night.

Their attempt follows a dramatic day in the Supreme Court before a three-judge bench of justices Dipak Misra, Prafulla C Pant and Amitava Roy, which failed to win any relief for Memon despite detailed arguments by his counsel, Raju Ramachandran, and TR Andhyarujina, the counsel for the intervenor, NLU Delhi’s death penalty litigation clinic.

Memon was the fourth person to be executed in 15 years, after Dhananjoy Chatterjee in 2004, Ajmal Kasab in 2012 and Afzal Guru in 2013.

Memon was also the first and only convict out of 100 allegedly involved in the 1993 Mumbai bomb blasts case. The death sentence of 11 others was commuted to life.

A Mumbai Special Court had sentenced him to death in July 2007.

The death warrant was issued by a Special TADA Court judge on April 29, scheduling the execution for July 30, with Maharashtra having started preparations for the noose for Memon almost three weeks ago.

Also read:

Reactions

Update 1: #Yakubhanged, a hashtag used by twitteratis to share their views about 1993 Mumbai serial blasts accused Yakun Memon’s execution, was a top trend on Twitter on Thursday.

At least three out of the 10 trending hashtags — #YakubHanged, #IndiaKaInsaf and #Memon at 9.30 a.m. — were related to Memon’s execution.

Congress leader Digvijaya Singh tweeted:

“I hope similar commitment of government and judiciary would be shown in all cases of terror irrespective of their caste, creed and religion.”

Update 2: Congress leader Shashi Tharoor tweeted:

Saddened by news that our government has hanged a human being. State-sponsored killing diminishes us all by reducing us to murderers too.

There is no evidence that death penalty serves as a deterrent, to the contrary in fact. All it does is exact retribution, unworthy of a Government.

cold-blooded execution has never prevented a terror attack anywhere.

Amnesty International India executive director Aakar Patel said:

This morning, the Indian government essentially killed a man in cold blood to show that killing is wrong.

This execution will not deliver justice for the 1993 Mumbai blasts. It is a misguided attempt to prevent terrorism, and a disappointing use of the criminal justice system as a tool for retribution.

Patel said authorities often find it convenient to hold up capital punishment as a symbol of their resolve to tackle crime, and choose to ignore more difficult and effective solutions like improving investigations, prosecutions and care for victims’ families.

Update 4: Kashmir lawmaker protests, taken into custody

An independent lawmaker in Kashmir on Thursday criticised the hanging of 1993 Mumbai serial blasts convict Yakub Memon and termed his execution as “a selective one that smacks of communal bias”.

“The way government of India and the judiciary showed urgency in convicting and subsequent hanging of Yakub Memon clearly shows a communal bias while dealing with the cases of a particular community,” said independent legislator, Engineer Rashid.

“Such an urgency is nowhere to be seen when it comes to cases relating to people involved in massacre of Muslims.”

Rashid led a protest rally in Srinagar’s city centre Lal chowk and held a symbolic sit-in near the clock tower in commercial hub of the city.

Rashid along with his two dozen supporters were taken into preventive custody by police.

The protestors also raised slogans in favour of Afzal Guru, hanged in 2013 due to his involvement in the 2001 parliament attack case.

“We want to ask Delhi who among Muslims is to be hanged next. As three people executed in the last three years are all Muslims. Why law is made to bend in cases involving people from Hindu-fundamentalist organisations,” the lawmaker said.

He said it is ironical that people involved in the Babri Masjid demolition and anti-Muslim pogroms are roaming scot-free and even occupying important positions in the country.

“If this selective targeting of Muslims continues it has the potential of communally dividing the country,” he added.

Comments

Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 03:15
+4 -10
"But what then is capital punishment but the most premeditated of murders, to which no criminal's deed, however calculated it may be, can be compared? For there to be equivalence, the death penalty would have to punish a criminal who had warned his victim of the date at which he would inflict a horrible death on him and who, from that moment onward, had confined him at his mercy for months. Such a monster is not encountered in private life."

~ Albert Camus, 'Reflections on the Guillotine'.
Guest 30 Jul 2015, 03:26
+1 -2
Why Raju Ramachandran did not appear after appearing in the afternoon? Was he excluded or did he withdraw?
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 04:01
+2 -10
A news report dt 10 Feb 2013 where Raju Ramachandran took a curious stand

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130210/nation.htm#3
Expert: Guru had no right to challenge mercy plea rejection
R Sedhuraman
Legal Correspondent

New Delhi, February 9
Afzal Guru, hanged to death today for his involvement in the December 2001 terror attack on Parliament, did not have any legal right to challenge the rejection of his mercy petition by the President, senior advocate Raju Ramachandran said today.

“The courts have said in judicial verdicts that even the decisions on mercy petitions are open to judicial review. This is different from saying that the death-row convicts have a right to challenge the rejection of their mercy pleas. There is no law that confers such a right to the convicts,” Ramachandran explained when asked about claims to the contrary.

Ramachandran, who has been Amicus Curiae in the Ajmal Kasab and Gujarat riots cases in the Supreme Court, was asked to clarify the legal position in the light of a claim made by Prof SAR Gilani, an acquitted co-accused in the case, that Afzal should have been given a chance to challenge the President’s rejection of his mercy petition before being sent to the gallows.

The senior advocate also justified the burial of Afzal’s body within the Tihar Jail complex here immediately after the execution, instead of handing it over to his family. “There is no legal compulsion. The government is free take a practical view. In normal circumstances, you have to hand over the body, but if it is going to result in security complications like the body being carried in a procession and construction of a memorial, I think the state can use its discretion not to hand over the body,” he said.

About another contention that Afzal did not get a fair trial, the Supreme Court itself had rejected it in its August 4, 2005 judgment confirming the death penalty awarded to the convict. “We find no substance in this contention. The learned trial judge did his best to afford effective legal aid to the accused Afzal when he declined to engage a counsel on his own,” the court had said.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 04:04
+3 -10
Raju Ramachandran displayed wide smiles yesterday while coming out of the SC after the SC dismissed Yakub's petition yesterday.

Also he refused to issue any statement to the press, why? His client would have been better served by some statement issued in his name.

The two SC judgments from yesterday deal with procedural technicalities and show that Yakub Memon still never got a hearing on the substantive arguments in his favor for clemency.
@Kian 30 Jul 2015, 04:23
+19 -4
"Kills"?

What about the fact that he conspired to kill 257 innocents?
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 04:32
+9 -32
That doesn't change the fact that the Maharashtra government killed a guy today by hanging, does it?
Dazed 30 Jul 2015, 08:27
+15 -4
[quote name="kianganz"]That doesn't change the fact that the Maharashtra government killed a guy today by hanging, does it?[/quote]

[b]Pretty rich coming from a guy whose government

Murdered over 400 and maimed 600 in Jalianwala Bagh Massacre (1919)
Murdered over 940 freedom fighters between 1902 and 1947 (in cold blood)
Blew the children of the last Mughal Emperor from the mouth of a Cannon (1858)

and....100 years later

Refuses to apologise for it : www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/david-cameron-visit-amritsar-massacre-1719343

But when Government of Maharashtra executes a low life scum cowardly murderer after due process of law it is termed a "killing". LOL[/b]
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 08:35
+8 -16
Nice try buddy, but:

1. I'm not British,
2. Even if I were, your argument would be just a tad illogical, silly and also just a tiny bit racist no? :)
Guest 30 Jul 2015, 11:03
+10 -5
[quote name="kianganz"]Nice try buddy, but:

1. I'm not British,
2. Even if I were, your argument would be just a tad illogical, silly and also just a tiny bit racist no? :)[/quote]

"Nice Try"

This is the most shameless statement I have seen yet , and not surprisingly coming from an Irish / Scottish / English / French / Dutch national (not relevant).

These self-righteous europeans raped, plundered and pillaged our country for 200 years and were finally kicked out, but not before leaving legacies of famine, plagues and underdevelopment that continue to be a problem.

Now these same fellows who owe their existence directly or indirectly to the Raj (think how many Irish / Scottish / English / French / Dutch nationals would have remained in the gutter without exploiting our wealth) gave the gall to sermonise and give lectures on morality about capital punishment !???

Btw Here is Britain's contribution to torture and death penalty:

1) Murderous and inhumane forms of torture such as the Rack, Flaying, Skinning Alive, Gouging out eyes, disemboweling, etc.
2) Burning on suspicion of witchcraft
3) Hanging and garotting pregnant women and children
4) Execution of thousands of people in the name of religion, heresy, adultery, etc. etc.

The sheer hypocrisy is mind-boggling !!!
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 11:15
+5 -9
Exactly Einstein, like you say, it's not relevant and you're still wrong, I'm not Irish / Scottish / English / French or Dutch either.

The level of your argument makes me sad though.

You're presumably the type who argues that since when the Mughals invaded India they killed and pillaged, therefore modern-day Muslims can't criticise any modern-day human rights abuses?

Two wrongs don't make a right, and that goes both for
1. judicially killing someone does not bring the original victims back to life, nor does it make for a fairer or better society, as countless research has proven,
2. trying to muzzle people from criticising the death penalty because of their nationality or some other prejudice you hold against those other than you.

Ok, bye, I'm done.
pseudo lawyer 30 Jul 2015, 04:34
+12 -5
Exactly, what about 257 innocent people who were KILLED. The SC upheld the death penalty and I don't think Kian is above the SC.
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 04:50
+7 -14
One does not preclude the other. One can kill 257 people but also be killed, surely?
ek tha Tiger 30 Jul 2015, 04:55
+1 -1
@ Kian et al... First be clear everyone here are against capital punishment or against hanging of yakub, it will be easier for readers to decide whether to support or counter the argument putforth..!!
Nishko 30 Jul 2015, 05:01
+19 -3
Seriously disgusting headline. If you want to make a point about the hanging, perhaps articulate it in an essay; not by making up tacky, attention-grabbing headlines.
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 05:05
+9 -17
Please explain what disgusts you about it exactly?

The fact that he was convicted for his role in killing 257, or the fact that he was killed by the government by hanging after his death penalty was confirmed?

Would you prefer: [b]Yakub Memon is no more: Victims' families can finally sleep soundly again after the government put him out of his misery with a rope.[/b]
Ninon 30 Jul 2015, 06:47
+15 -2
We would prefer 'Supreme court kills Yakub Memon for his role in murdering 257 innocent people', or we could just go with 'Supreme Court upholds death penalty of Yakub Memon'. Please do not use this website as a billboard for your personal views, or readers will find somewhere more objective. That may be difficult to find, agreed, but LI of late seems to be more and more a sounding board for your pet peeves, Kian.
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 06:55
+4 -16
Your headline seems much more subjective than our very factual and descriptive headline of what happened.

Yes, the headline is intentionally slightly provocative but only because so many people seem bizarrely offended by anyone spelling out the fact that yes, the government and the judges have legally ordered the KILLING of someone.

If you're comfortable with the death penalty, then that headline and the word kill shouldn't make you uncomfortable.

If it does make you uncomfortable, then maybe you should reconsider your stance on the death penalty rather then dressing it up in euphemism like 'the noose', 'execution' or 'death penalty'.

Call a killing a killing, and then we can talk.
Ninon 30 Jul 2015, 07:03
+11 -3
of course a killing is a killing. what makes your readers uncomfortable is the way you emphasize it on what the Supreme Court has done and not on what Yakub Memon did. If you want to call a spade a spade, it applies equally to both situations. If you had been equally vociferous in terming what Yakub did a 'killing' or 'murder' of innocents, I doubt many would be offended by your provocative headline. I know I wouldn't.

And my headline (which was in response to your alternative headline btw) is as factual and descriptive as the actual headline of your printed article.

I am very comfortable with my stand on the death penalty. I am not comforatble with LI's (or is it Kian's) bias. I will stop here because you will no doubt want to have the last word.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:12
+6 -14
The fact is that many many Indians remain unconvinced that Yakub Memon did kill anyone. His exact role remains unclear.

We must remember that in this country the police and other actors in the criminal justice system are highly corrupt and with an issue like terrorism and the need for the govt to exact revenge, evidence is cooked up, exculpatory material suppressed, right to a fair trial violated, witnesses and accused are tortured, terrified and silenced, and we get the official story in the form of a judgment which nobody looks at closely or questions.

But the SC did order that Yakub Memon be killed in cold blood.
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 07:29
+3 -5
Everyone knows that Yakub's been convicted for his role in murdering innocents.

The news today is that he was executed despite last-ditch appeals, etc, and that this is the 4th execution to take place in 15 years.
Scooter- 30 Jul 2015, 07:18
+16 -2
Kian, On the assumption that you are also a lawyer, i hope it is fair to assume you understand the difference between the words you are using. Death penalty and the consequent execution are terms used when the due process of law has been followed- which in this case was. Killing on the other hand, is without the same.

"Maharashtra Kills" is more in the nature of an encounter.

It is clear that you are driving your views on death penalty to the headlines. Its perfectly fine to have your views and have it. Ideally its suited for the op-ed pages and not the 'news pages'.

Knowing you may not be amenable to agree, have a consistency related comment on the headline- can even mention- 4th 'Killing' in 15 years instead of execution.
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 07:40
+1 -14
Actually, no - other than implying causality between one act and a consequence, 'killing' is purely descriptive and neutral and has no legal definition other than its dictionary definition, as far as I'm aware: i.e., causing the death of someone or something.

e.g:
The driver accidentally killed the cyclist.
The doctor killed his patient because of he was negligent.
She was killed by a tree that fell when it was struck by lightning.
It was the grief that killed him, they said.
The police sniper killed the hostage-taker with a single bullet to the head, saving the lives of 10 with his quick reaction and proportionate response.
The cow had to be killed because it was in too much pain (euphemistically slaughtered / put down)
The innocent child was killed by a stray bullet.
The guillotine's blade severed his head, killing him instantly.
The axe killed him in one clean swoop, in the traditional execution ceremony that was ordered by the king.
The electric chair killed the convict with 10000 Volts.
Death by hanging usually kills a person when the neck snaps.

We might have a hundred euphemisms to dress it up in pretty words like 'succumbed', 'friendly fire', 'collateral damage', 'encounter', 'execution', etc, but all those in the context of one person doing it to another, ultimately boil down to killing.
Scooter- 30 Jul 2015, 11:01
+6 -0
if the other words also mean the same, why not stick to convention then? Also, as synonyms go- all may mean approximately the same, however, their usage, most often is not interchangeable but contextual.

while im at my hourly break, let me try and distinguish your examples (In Caps next to the example)

The driver accidentally killed the cyclist. - ACCIDENTAL
The doctor killed his patient because of he was negligent.- ACCIDENTAL, WRONGFUL
She was killed by a tree that fell when it was struck by lightning.- ACCIDENTAL
It was the grief that killed him, they said. - HERE REFERENCE IS TO THE MERE ACT OF DYING. NO THIRD PARTY REFERENCE.
The police sniper killed the hostage-taker with a single bullet to the head, saving the lives of 10 with his quick reaction and proportionate response. - ENCOUNTER (as I mentioned in my earlier email)
The cow had to be killed because it was in too much pain (euphemistically slaughtered / put down)- HERE KILLED IS INAPPROPRIATE AND PUT DOWN IS BETTER SUITED AS YOU SUGGEST. THEREFORE, BUTTRESSING MY CONTEXTUAL USAGE PLEA.
The innocent child was killed by a stray bullet.- INNOCENT, ACCIDENT
The guillotine's blade severed his head, killing him instantly.- REFERENCE MERELY TO DYING AND NOT AN ACTION OF TAKING AWAY SOMEONES LIFE- WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE IF YOU SAID< YAKUB WAS EXECUTED THEREBY KILLING HIM INSTANTLY
The axe killed him in one clean swoop, in the traditional execution ceremony that was ordered by the king.(SAME AS THE GUILLOTINE EXAMPLE- SEE HOW THIS SENTENCE USES EXECUTION FOR THE CEREMONY AND KILLED AS A RESULT)
The electric chair killed the convict with 10000 Volts. (SAME AS ABOVE)
Death by hanging usually kills a person when the neck snaps. (SAME AS ABOVE)
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 11:44
+2 -7
Because convention in language makes us lazy if we don't examine what words really mean, and it is also one role of journalism and good writing to make people examine the words they use and their thoughts about them.

For instance, phrases such as "collateral damage" are inherently dangerous, because it allows the US army to bomb other countries and dress up civilian death / killing in clinical military words, mostly for propagandist purposes.

The fact is that 'execution' is a euphemism, just as capital punishment is a euphemism (and derived from) literally taking someone's HEAD off.

I gave a variety of examples where the word 'kill' is applicable which do not have any value judgment, I'm not sure why it makes a difference about whether there are synonyms that are more commonly used.

By illustration, compare these:
1. The lynchmob killed him by stringing him up on a tree by a rope.
2. The crazed dictator glanced at the prisoner, and said, I decree that he shall be put to death by hanging. His personal hangman appeared immediately, and killed the prisoner by hanging him from his neck in the throneroom until he was dead.
3. After the judges independently ascertained his guilt and the democratically elected president rejected his mercy petition, the executioner duly employed and empowered by the state, did his duty and killed the murderer by pressing the lever that made him fall from the gallows by a rope.

Are you saying that 'kill' is only appropriate to use in the first case?

Or only in the first 2 case, since they are the only ones that are not democratic?

Imagine if it turns out after the execution that it was a miscarriage of justice. Would we be allowed to use 'kill' then, since his execution was a mistake / accidental?

Language is not black and white, and if you think that an execution is not literally killing someone sanctioned by the state, then maybe you're not being completely honest with yourself?
Scooter- 31 Jul 2015, 05:04
+5 -0
my view is that the usage for killed is appropriate for 1 and 2 and not for 3 for the reasons you have mentioned. If due process was followed, then it remains an execution. However, if later it was found that the person was innocent- then it was a 'wrongful execution' as opposed to it changing to 'killing'. However, I will be slightly more lenient there and object lesser to usage of killing if he was found to be innocent.

However, in this case, the objection is on the presumption that his guilt was rightly found. If it wassnt, there are bigger problems than terminology and appropriate words.
kianganz 31 Jul 2015, 05:19
+1 -5
Thanks for your response Scooter.

Then we have different definitions of the word to kill, clearly. You seem to imply that kill means something close to murder - i.e., taking someone's life unjustly, which I don't think is the definition.

Plus you run into a problem once you accept that one execution can be called a killing by the state, you're on a sliding scale that will never end.

Continuing from there, for arguments' sake, which of the following are killing, and which are executions in your opinion?

1. Mass executions in football stadiums in Iran of homosexuals or political dissidents, etc, as decreed by their courts?
2. An execution by ISIS, carried out in accordance with Shariah law.
3. An execution in Indonesia for drug smuggling or so?
4. An execution in the US of a black man whose public defender fell asleep and where (I'd have to dig out the exact stats), an overwhelming number of those executed are non-white and poor?
5. An execution by the Taliban?
6. An execution by a military dictator during a coup?
7. A soldier executed in court martial?
8. A Chinese businessman executed for food adulteration?
9. A Saudi something or other for whatever they execute for in their shining example of a democracy?

We could go on with dozens of executions that are morally dubious or at different points of the sliding scale.

So who gets to decide when one is allowed to call one a killing and not another?

Either they are all executions and all killings, or none of them are.
Scooter- 31 Jul 2015, 05:45
+4 -0
will get back with our responses asap. Deliverable.
Pseudo lawyer 31 Jul 2015, 08:02
+5 -0
How about this - terrorist hanged after SC upheld the death penalty
huh 30 Jul 2015, 05:27
+2 -3
he is making a point by being grammatically correct? kill is the act of causing death. the state of Maharashtra caused the death of yakub by hanging him. moreover, kill is a neutral that can be describe a variety of other situations K.I.A- killed in action (heroic, depending on which side youre on), killed in car accident (sad :(), nanavati kills wife's lover for revenge (strong upright man)
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 05:31
+3 -7
Thanks, what 'huh' said.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/kill

[quote]Kill
Cause the death of (a person, animal, or other living thing):
her father was killed in a car crash [no object]:
a robber armed with a shotgun who kills in cold blood
Fish farmers are licensed to kill predators that threaten their nets, pens and fish.
He paid tribute to the two soldiers killed in the crash.
Hamlet is able to avenge his father's death by killing his uncle.
[/quote]
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:08
+5 -20
The headline should have said India pre-meditatively murders Yakub Memon in cold blood.
Scooter- 30 Jul 2015, 07:19
+13 -0
you are another one!
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 08:04
+2 -8
Scooter, another what?
Scooter- 30 Jul 2015, 11:02
+4 -2
problemetiser
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:19
+4 -15
"An execution is not simply death. It is just as different from the privation of life as a concentration camp is from prison. It adds to death a rule, a public premeditation known to the future victim, an organization which is itself a source of moral sufferings more terrible than death. Capital punishment is the most premeditated of murders, to which no criminal's deed, however calculated can be compared. For there to be an equivalency, the death penalty would have to punish a criminal who had warned his victim of the date at which he would inflict a horrible death on him and who, from that moment onward, had confined him at his mercy for months. Such a monster is not encountered in private life."

-- Albert Camus

A fuller quote above.

We would all wish for a sudden death, like where a person dies in his sleep.

People with terminal illnesses or injuries know they will die, but not when. The hope for life continues.

A death penalty victim is forced to undergo the extreme cruelty of knowing exactly when his life will be taken and he will be killed. There can be no greater suffering.

None of us had the right to decide that Yakub Memon did not deserve to live.
ek tha Tiger 30 Jul 2015, 05:23
+9 -2
[quote name="Seema Sapra"]"An execution is not simply death. It is just as different from the privation of life as a concentration camp is from prison. It adds to death a rule, a public premeditation known to the future victim, an organization which is itself a source of moral sufferings more terrible than death. Capital punishment is the most premeditated of murders, to which no criminal's deed, however calculated can be compared. For there to be an equivalency, the death penalty would have to punish a criminal who had warned his victim of the date at which he would inflict a horrible death on him and who, from that moment onward, had confined him at his mercy for months. Such a monster is not encountered in private life."

-- Albert Camus

A fuller quote above.


We would all wish for a sudden death, like where a person dies in his sleep.

People with terminal illnesses or injuries know they will die, but not when. The hope for life continues.

A death penalty victim is forced to undergo the extreme cruelty of knowing exactly when his life will be taken and he will be killed. There can be no greater suffering.

None of us had the right to decide that Yakub Memon did not deserve to live.[/quote]



Your hatred towards few.... seems misdirected
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:26
+6 -16
Ha ha another distorting troll, will not react :)
larger pic 30 Jul 2015, 05:26
+5 -2
i wonder when i read people blow themselves in public to enforce their religious belief..aren't they knew place and timing of their death beforehand..??? that's not cruel, that's pleasure for them..!!
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:39
+3 -10
The debate about death penalty is about the State inflicting such horrendous suffering upon a human being and not about a human killing himself premeditatively. There is a difference in the ethics involved if you think hard.
ek tha Tiger 30 Jul 2015, 05:21
+12 -2
ohh i forget in India i can kill people and then expect mercy as our justice system is not based upon retribution
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:44
+3 -14
No modern justice system should be based upon retribution. And yes to take mercy upon a condemned man is a great humanitarian act.

I am no admirer of Gandhi but he said:

"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong."

First I am not convinced about Yakub Memon's exact guilt. Second even if he did all that the trial court said he did, even then he was in jail for 22 years, he could have been allowed to live in jail until he died.

But then I do not expect to convince the bloodthirsty.
KnowTheTruth 30 Jul 2015, 15:01
+6 -0
[quote name="Seema Sapra"]No modern justice system should be based upon retribution. And yes to take mercy upon a condemned man is a great humanitarian act.

I am no admirer of Gandhi but he said:

"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong."

First I am not convinced about Yakub Memon's exact guilt. Second even if he did all that the trial court said he did, even then he was in jail for 22 years, he could have been allowed to live in jail until he died.

But then I do not expect to convince the bloodthirsty.[/quote]

What does it take you to be convinced of YM's guilt? Don't you trust our judges, the elaborate hearings, the review petitions and curative petition, and mercy pleas?
The only way, perhaps, is to attend all the court proceedings to know what evidences were produced to prove his crime.
full marks 30 Jul 2015, 06:23
+5 -3
for a salman khan fan you seem surprisingly cogent.yes, youre correct. we as indians hold ourselves as a collective above the baser emotions of vengeance and retribution. the important being as a collective, no doubt in the case of individuals (family member murdered, want death) one might fall prey to such emotions, but we as a collective differ. hence society judges and not the individual.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:31
+4 -15
Full marks for being incoherent, but here goes, did all 1 billion + Indians appear in your dream and tell you what you just stated on their collective behalf?

The number of people who were involved in condeming Yakub Memon to die were a mere handful, I might add.

But never mind, such intricacies are beyond you.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:29
+2 -13
A good essay on the barbarity of capital punishment

http://www.outlookindia.com/article/camus--the-barbarity-of-capital-punishment/294945
Silent Observer 30 Jul 2015, 05:42
+3 -1
A right..
A pertinacious resistance..
An extra-ordinary set of precedents..
A death
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:51
+4 -12
"I have yet to see a death case among the dozen coming to the Supreme Court on eve-of-execution stay applications in which the defendant was well represented at trial... People who are well represented at trial do not get the death penalty."

-Ruth Bader Ginsburg, U.S. Supreme Court Justice
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:52
+4 -12
"It can be argued that rapists deserve to be raped, that mutilators deserve to be mutilated. Most societies, however, refrain from responding in this way because the punishment is not only degrading to those on whom it is imposed, but it is also degrading to the society that engages in the same behavior as the criminals."

-Stephen Bright, human rights attorney
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:53
+4 -11
"Society may protect itself without putting a human to death as it would a wild animal. Since we believe each person has a soul, and is capable of achieving salvation, life in prison is now an alternative to the death penalty."

-Richard Viguerie and Brent Bozell, Tea Party supporters
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:53
+4 -13
"I've been haunted by the men I was asked to execute in the name of the state of Florida. This is premeditated, carefully thought out ceremonial killing."

-Ron McAndrew, was a prison warden in Florida
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:54
+4 -14
"[I am] haunted by the demon of error - error in determining guilt and error in determining who among the guilty deserves to die."

-George Ryan, former Illinois Governor
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:55
+4 -12
"To take a life when a life has been lost is revenge, not justice."

-Desmond Tutu
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:57
+4 -12
"Imposition of the death penalty is arbitrary and capricious. Decision of who will live and who will die for his crime turns less on the nature of the offense and the incorrigibility of the offender and more on inappropriate and indefensible considerations: the political and personal inclinations of prosecutors; the defendant's wealth, race and intellect; the race and economic status of the victim; the quality of the defendant's counsel; and the resources allocated to defense lawyers."

-Gerald Heaney, former appellate judge
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:58
+4 -12
"I have never heard a murderer say they thought about the death penalty as consequence of their actions prior to committing their crimes."

-Gregory Ruff, police lieutenant in Kansas
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:58
+4 -11
"As if one crime of such nature, done by a single man, acting individually, can be expiated by a similar crime done by all men, acting collectively."

-Lewis Lawes, warden of Sing Sing prison in NY in the 1920s and 30s
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 05:59
+4 -12
“People say that executing criminals does not take away from their dignity – if it is done with dignity. But the fact of the matter is that whether you’re waiting to die by lethal injection – waiting ... for the poison to flow down your veins – or waiting for a bullet, or waiting for a rope, or waiting for gas, or waiting for the electric current – there is no difference: there is no lesser or greater dignity in dying. The practice of the death penalty is the practice of torture. And by the time people I have been with finally climb into the chair to be killed, they have died a thousand times already because of their anticipation of the final horror.”

– Helen Prejean, author of the book “Dead Man Walking: An Eyewitness Account of the Death Penalty in the United States.”
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:02
+4 -13
“Can the state, which represents the whole of society and has the duty of protecting society, fulfill that duty by lowering itself to the level of the murderer, and treating him as he treated others? The forfeiture of life is too absolute, too irreversible, for one human being to inflict it on another, even when backed by legal process. And I believe that future generations, throughout the world, will come to agree.”

– Kofi Annan, Ghanaian diplomat and Secretary General of the United Nations 1997-2007
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:03
+4 -13
“It should be clear that the death penalty does just the opposite of promoting decency and respect for life. It dehumanizes people and promotes murder. It can never be applied fairly.”

– John Morrison
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:04
+4 -12
“With every cell of my being, and with every fiber of my memory, I oppose the death penalty in all forms.... I do not believe any civilized society should be at the service of death. I don’t think it’s human to become an Angel of Death.”

– Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner in 1986.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:05
+4 -11
“Judicial execution can never cancel or remove the atrocity it seeks to punish; it can only add a second atrocity to the original one … So long as one sees killing as wrong there is no need to waste time with the deterrent argument, since it would be nonsense to try to prevent a theoretical evil in the future by perpetrating an actual one in the present.”

– Auberon Waugh, British author and journalist.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:06
+3 -11
“Government ... can’t be trusted to control its own bureaucrats or collect taxes equitably or fill a pothole, much less decide which of its citizens to kill.”

– Helen Prejean, author of the book “Dead Man Walking: An Eyewitness Account of the Death Penalty in the United States.”
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:07
+4 -11
“It is well-nigh obvious that those who are in favor of the death penalty have more affinities with murderers than those who oppose it.”

-- Remy de Gourmont
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:09
+4 -11
“In any case, frequent punishments are a sign of weakness or slackness in the government. There is no man so bad that he cannot be made good for something. No man should be put to death, even as an example, if he can be left to live without danger to society.”

? Jean-Jacques Rousseau, The Social Contract
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:10
+4 -11
“through god's eyes murder is still murder. there's no such thing as a legal murder, it's only legal through the eyes of a murderer.”

? David J. Martinez
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:11
+4 -10
“The State is not God. It has not the right to take away what it cannot restore when it wants to.”

? Anton Chekhov
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:13
+4 -11
“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”

? J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:14
+4 -11
“I believe [...] that while all human life is sacred there’s nothing wrong with the death penalty if you can trust the legal system implicitly, and that no one but a moron would ever trust the legal system.”

? Neil Gaiman, American Gods
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:14
+3 -11
“But secondly you say 'society must exact vengeance, and society must punish'. Wrong on both counts. Vengeance comes from the individual and punishment from God.”

? Victor Hugo, The Last Day of a Condemned Man
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:22
+3 -11
Pope John Paul II

“A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I …appeal…for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary.”
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:24
+4 -11
Martin Luther King, Jr.

“Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction.”

“I do not think that God approves the death penalty for any crime, rape and murder included. Capital punishment is against the better judgment of modern criminology, and, above all, against the highest expression of love in the nature of God.”
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:32
+4 -11
No man has the right to take God's place and say another man should die. It destroyed my life."

Perry Cobb, who spent eight years on Illinois' death row for a crime he did not commit. He was exonerated in 1987.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:33
+3 -11
"My overriding belief is that it is always possible for criminals to improve and that by its very finality the death penalty contradicts this."

The Dalai Lama
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:34
+4 -11
I know something about killing. I don't like killing. And I don't think a state honors life by turning around and sanctioning killing. Now, that's just a personal belief that I have.

JOHN KERRY, Wolf Blitzer Reports, CNN, Sep. 17, 1996
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:37
+4 -11
Death is not only an unusually severe punishment, unusual in its pain, in its finality and in its enormity, but it serves no penal purpose more effectively than a less severe punishment; therefore the principle inherent in the clause that prohibits pointless infliction of excessive punishment when less severe punishment can adequately achieve the same purposes invalidates the punishment.

WILLIAM J. BRENNAN, judicial opinion, Jul. 2, 1976
KnowTheTruth 30 Jul 2015, 14:49
+7 -0
[quote name="Seema Sapra"]Death is not only an unusually severe punishment, unusual in its pain, in its finality and in its enormity, but it serves no penal purpose more effectively than a less severe punishment; therefore the principle inherent in the clause that prohibits pointless infliction of excessive punishment when less severe punishment can adequately achieve the same purposes invalidates the punishment.

WILLIAM J. BRENNAN, judicial opinion, Jul. 2, 1976[/quote]


and what about the deterrant effect?

YM was behind bars for 22 years, and most people (except victims' families) had stopped following what happened to the case. When his execution came up, he (and his crime) became known to a lot many people. In fact, more people followed the news updates of his execution than of Late.Pres.Kalam's death. I hope this serves as a deterrance to people who have the potential of committing such crime.

btw, I am not in favour of,or against death sentence - but wanted to share above observation.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:43
+3 -9
U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder

"I disagree very much with Justice Scalia’s certitude that we have never put to death an innocent person. It’s one of the reasons why I personally am opposed to the death penalty. We have the greatest judicial system in the world, but at the end of the day it’s made up of men and women making decisions, tough decisions. Men and women who are dedicated, but dedicated men and women can make mistakes. And I find it hard to believe that in our history that has not happened."

- U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, in an interview for The Marshall Project, Nov. 17, 2014.
KnowTheTruth 30 Jul 2015, 14:39
+6 -0
[quote name="Seema Sapra"]U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder

"I disagree very much with Justice Scalia’s certitude that we have never put to death an innocent person. It’s one of the reasons why I personally am opposed to the death penalty. We have the greatest judicial system in the world, but at the end of the day it’s made up of men and women making decisions, tough decisions. Men and women who are dedicated, but dedicated men and women can make mistakes. And I find it hard to believe that in our history that has not happened."

- U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, in an interview for The Marshall Project, Nov. 17, 2014.[/quote]

If the point is that capital punishment should not exist because the conviction could be a mistake, then is it acceptable to put the (innocent) person behind bars for 20, 30 or 40 years, by mistake?
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:44
+4 -10
“[T]here has never been any evidence that the death penalty reduces capital crimes or that crimes increased when executions stopped. Tragic mistakes are prevalent...It is clear that there are overwhelming ethical, financial, and religious reasons to abolish the death penalty."

- Former President Jimmy Carter
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:44
+4 -10
"Give a law enforcement professional like me that $250 million, and I'll show you how to reduce crime. The death penalty isn't anywhere on my list.”

- Police Chief James Abbott, West Orange, New Jersey
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 06:46
+4 -9
Our criminal justice system is fallible. We know it, even though we don't like to admit it. It is fallible despite the best efforts of most within it to do justice. And this fallibility is, at the end of the day, the most compelling, persuasive, and winning argument against a death penalty.

Eliot Spitzer
Scooter- 30 Jul 2015, 07:20
+11 -1
Seema ke paas Camus nahi hai.#goodbadpun
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 08:05
+1 -6
Scooter - care to explain the bad pun, so I can understand the insult ...
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 08:25
+2 -6
Scooter, bad pun samajh mein aa gaya, kya karun, google me aur mera blog padho
Scooter- 30 Jul 2015, 11:04
+1 -0
Padha hai. Datey rahe!
Scooter- 30 Jul 2015, 11:05
+4 -0
waise, dont mean it as an insult. Just your affinity to quote Camus and the resultant pun was tempting.
Ninon 30 Jul 2015, 08:23
+5 -0
LOL@the good pun
Scooter- 31 Jul 2015, 09:27
+1 -0
thanks for loling at the pun. :-)
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:16
+2 -10
"Cases such as these provide for me an excruciating agony of the spirit. I yield to no one in the depth of my distaste, antipathy, and indeed, abhorrence, for the death penalty, with all its aspects of physical distress and fear and of moral judgment exercised by finite minds. That distaste is buttressed by a belief that capital punishment serves no useful purpose that can be demonstrated ... Were I a legislator, I would vote against the death penalty."

-Justice Harry Blackmun's opinion in Furman vs. Georgia, 1972
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:17
+2 -9
"We are not so mad as to think that we shall create a world in which murder will not occur. We are fighting for a world in which murder will no longer be legal."

-Albert Camus
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:18
+2 -9
"We oppose the death penalty not just for what it does to those guilty of heinous crimes, but for what it does to all of us: It offers the tragic illusion that we can defend life by taking life."

-Rev. Joseph A. Fiorenza, President of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, U.S. Catholic Conference, 1999
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:18
+2 -9
"The death penalty is no more effective a deterrent than life imprisonment...
It is also evident that the burden of capital punishment falls upon the poor, the ignorant and the underprivileged members of society."

—United States Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:19
+2 -9
"As one whose husband and mother-in-law have both died the victims of murder assassination, I stand firmly and unequivically opposed to the death penalty for those convicted of capital offenses. An evil deed is not redeemed by an evil deed of retaliation. Justice is never advanced in the taking of a human life. Morality is never upheld by legalized murder."

-Corretta Scott King
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:19
+2 -9
"We regard all forms of capital punishment as barbaric and obsolete"

-Rabannical Assembly
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:21
+2 -9
"The Death Penalty is nothing less than human sacrifice. It has ritual, religion, and it is to appease the God of vengence. This society accuses the Aztecs of human sacrifice when they practice human sacrifice in virtually every state in the union."

-Russell Means, First National Director of the American Indian Movement, Activist
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:34
+2 -9
"You can take away our names and replace them with numbers, cage and store us in conditions not even fit for your family dog, and exterminate us at your whim, but we are still human beings, capable of everything from love and beauty to violence and hate."

-- Thomas B. Whitaker, Texas Death Row Inmate #999522.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:36
+2 -9
"Evidence of innocence is irrelevant!"

-- Mary Sue Terry, former Attorney General of Virginia, replying to an appeal to introduce new evidence from a prisoner sentenced to death.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:37
+2 -9
"To assert in any case that a man must be absolutely cut off from society because he is absolutely evil amounts to saying that society is absolutely good, and no-one in his right mind will believe this today."

-- Albert Camus, French writer and philosopher
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:38
+2 -9
"The gallows is not only a machine of death but a symbol. It is the symbol of terror, cruelty, and irreverence for life; the common denominator of primitive savagery, medieval fanaticism and modern totalitarianism. It stands for everything that mankind must reject, if mankind is to survive the present crisis."

-- Arthur Koestler, English novelist and essayist.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:39
+2 -9
"And so to the end of history, murder shall breed murder, always in the name of right and honour, and peace, until the Gods are tired of blood and create a race that can understand."

-- George Bernard Shaw, English playwright
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:40
+2 -8
"I don't think there's any words in the English language to explain what it's --what it's like to-- to sit on Texas death row and your thoughts are laying on that gurney, convicted but innocent and being put to death."

-- Kerry Max Cook, twice convicted and sentenced to death for the 1977 rape murder of a 21-year-old secretary in Tyler, TX. Cook was released after 22 years
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:42
+2 -6
"The conditions of confinement are so oppressive, the helplessness endured in the roller coaster of hope and despair so wrenching and exhausting, that ultimately the inmate can no longer bear it, and then it is only in dropping his appeals that he has any sense of control over his fate."

-- Dr. Stuart Grassian, psychiatrist and expert in death row inmates; about prisoners who "volunteer" for execution
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:43
+2 -8
"I regard the death penalty as a savage and immoral institution that undermines the moral and legal foundations of society. I reject the notion that the death penalty has any essential deterrent effect on potential offenders. I am convinced that the contrary is true - that savagery begets only savagery."

-- Andrei Sakharov, Russian nuclear physicist, Nobel Peace Prize laureate
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:45
+2 -8
"I don't want a moratorium on the death penalty. I want the abolition of it. I can't understand why a country [USA] that's so committed to human rights doesn't find the death penalty an obscenity." --

Desmond Tutu, South African Anglican Archbishop of Cape Town, Nobel Peace Prize laureate.
Mx. X 30 Jul 2015, 07:45
+17 -0
Oh my God!
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:47
+2 -8
"But the chief and worst pain may not be in the bodily suffering but in one's not knowing for certain that in an hour, and then now, at the very moment, the soul will leave the body and that one will cease to be a man and that that's bound to happen; the worst part of it is that it's certain ... To kill for murder is a punishment incomparably worse than the crime itself. Murder by legal sentence is immeasurably more terrible than murder by brigands. Anyone murdered by brigands, whose throat is cut at night in a wood or something of that sort, must surely hope to escape till the very last minute ..., but in the other case (execution) all that last hope which makes dying ten times as easy is taken away for certain. There is the sentence, and the whole awful torture lies in the fact that there is certainly no escape, and there is no torture in the world more terrible."

-- Feodor Dostoevsky, Russian novelist
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:48
+2 -8
"There is a part of the warden that dies with his prisoner. Nobody else can suffer the intimacy of impending death, or experience the pitiable helplessness involved, in the same way as the warden and his condemned prisoner. Both are victims, unwilling captives of a human tragedy that is presented on a stage shrouded by mystery. It is played before a small, invited audience that is hidden from public view. Acted out in the darkness of night, as if to shield the citizenry from the awful reality of it all, an execution is a drama that panders to public fear and to a lust for vengeance, which is otherwise disguised as justice."

-- Donald A. Cabana, former warden of Mississippi's State Penitentiary (Parchman) who supervised two executions in the prison gas chamber before quitting his job and publicly opposing capital punishment
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:53
+1 -9
"It is said to be a deterrent. I cannot agree....I do not now believe that any one of the hundreds of executions I carried out has in any way acted as a deterrent against future murder. Capital punishment, in my view, achieved nothing except revenge."

-- Albert Pierrepoint, Britain's last official hangman, in his 1974 autobiography
Manica 30 Jul 2015, 07:56
+22 -4
Since when is copying quotations considered 'commenting'? Can you please do something about the dozen or so incredibly annoying 'comments' above so one could actually read the real comments. Very annoying.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 08:06
+3 -21
Mania, all these quotes are very relevant comments, hopefully they might make you think, whereas your "comment" serves no purpose other than trolling me.
Just Curious 30 Jul 2015, 07:57
+9 -4
Who is funding the legal costs for Yakub's defense through the years?

Imposing Death Penalty is part of the laws we live by and the Supreme Court and the Maharashtra Government is well within their rights to implement the law. All supporters of banishing the Death Penalty have to push for a change in law as opposed to blaming the mechanism that implements the existing laws.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 07:59
+1 -12
To vindicate the sanctity of human life by taking it is an outrage upon reason. The spectacle of a human being dangling at the end of a gallows-rope is a degradation of humanity.

CHRISTIAN NESTELL BOVEE, Intuitions and Summaries of Thought
Just a thought 30 Jul 2015, 08:52
+7 -4
Please lose all your loved ones in a terror attack. Then go and defend the terrorist who killed your loved ones with legal skills and the emotional quotes above and spare him or her the noose. Only then can you claim to truly represent the philosophy of love and compassion above - and people can take you seriously
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 09:01
+3 -15
Ugh. 1. Why would you wish that on someone?

2. Your argument doesn't make much sense.

As far as I can tell, all the hang-em-high types are purely arguing that emotional satisfaction and suffering requires retribution by killing the one responsible for the death of their loved one.

I understand the impulse.

But I would argue that while retribution is something that the justice system should take into account, we can not leave the decision about killing another person to someone who is so close to the matter because that person is clearly and understandably biased, because they are emotionally too close to it.

Otherwise why bother with the courts for sentencing - we could just let the victims of a crime decide the punishment?
Just a thought 30 Jul 2015, 08:53
+10 -2
Bear the pain yourself before advising others.
Bud Green 30 Jul 2015, 08:15
+24 -1
If only Legally India was the Supreme Court and Seema Sapra was Yakub's lawyer. These quotes would have amounted to something.
scooterette 30 Jul 2015, 09:09
+8 -3
the elected representatives of India - starting right from the constituent assembly to the present parliament - in their wisdom have felt the death penalty should be part of India's justice system and the SC and the HC which again represents the best of our legal minds has decided that it is the best punishment in this instance. I think the debate ends there. Due process was followed enuf said.

My personal view - hang the bastard
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 09:20
+2 -13
Hmm, 'hang the bastard', that's some serious eloquence and nuanced argument on display here.

Finally, debate should never end; it is fundamental to democracy.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 09:24
+2 -9
Rajya Sabha to debate death penalty today
The resolution, set to be discussed in the Upper House on Thursday, quotes former President A P J Abdul Kalam’s support for abolition of the death penalty.


- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/rajya-sabha-to-debate-death-penalty-today/#sthash.5ZVdYpr3.dpuf
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 09:32
+1 -11
Last year's news

Should death penalty go? Law panel begins review

"Almost half a century after it said the time was not right to abolish the death penalty, the Law Commission of India has embarked on an exercise to take a relook at the issue. The Law Commission has issued a public consultation paper on capital punishment with a detailed questionnaire open to the public to send in their views on the issue.

The move comes close on the heels of the Supreme Court commuting the death sentence of 19 persons after their mercy pleas were rejected since January this year. In one of the cases, the apex court referred to the conundrum and observed that "perhaps the Law Commission of India can resolve the issue by examining whether death penalty is a deterrent punishment or is retributive justice or serves an incapitative goal".

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Should-death-penalty-go-Law-panel-begins-review/articleshow/40862013.cms
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 09:41
+1 -10
In a recent one day consultation (July 2015) on reconsideration of the death penalty,

"Law Commission member Professor Mool Chand Sharma noted that the day-long discussion seemed to suggest that there was a need to consider a moratorium on executions till the problems in the legal system are removed. Law Commission Chairman Justice A P Shah also said that there was a “serious need” to re-examine the issue of death penalty, since there were several “inconsistencies in the system” which led to arbitrariness and discrimination in the imposition of death penalty."

- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/law-commission-consultation-from-varun-to-tharoor-voices-emerge-against-death-penalty/#sthash.SbdB4usv.dpuf
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 09:56
+1 -9
Unfortunately

"... only six members of Parliament, from a full 900 or so in the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, attended the Law Commission's public consultations on the abolishing of the death penalty in early July - Kanimozhi of the AIADMK, Manish Tewari and Shashi Tharoor of the Congress, Varun Gandhi of the BJP, Majid Memon (and early counsel for Yakub Memon) of the NCP and Ashish Khetan of the Aam Aadmi Party.

It is not known what the influential Law Commission is going to say when it gives its report next month. Suffice to say that most of those who participated in the consultations, with the exception of the Supreme Court lawyer Dushyant Dave (no relation to Justice Anil Dave who rejected Memon's curative petition a few days ago) were against the death penalty. The gathering also included people like Julio Ribeiro, the man who successfully dealt with the insurgency in Punjab in the wake of Operation Blue Star, as well as the first chief information commissioner Wajahat Habibullah."

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/yakub-memon-nagpur-central-jail-bhullar-rajoana-afzal-guru-ujjwal-nikam/story/1/5326.html
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 10:26
+1 -10
Former Supreme Court Judge K T Thomas thinks the death penalty is judicial murder

http://www.outlookindia.com/article/death-penalty-is-judicial-murder/285079

K T Thomas on the death penalty - "Yes. I believe it is judicial murder. Punishment should be corrective and reformatory in nature, not retributive. Death penalty does not help a convict. The law should have scope for reform of the convict’s mind. This is not to condone the convict. Pronouncing death for someone is not an acceptable situation for any kind of crime."

He also believes that persons who have spent 20 or more years in prison should not be hanged.

From May 2015 interview
Scooter- 30 Jul 2015, 11:08
+4 -2
The Liberals are the ones who move from their set views the least.
scooterette 30 Jul 2015, 10:59
+4 -2
is eloquence a prereuisite to having an opinion or engaging in debate and why was my comment censored when the person in question had called someone else a troll and u had published it
Rao 30 Jul 2015, 11:03
+5 -3
So eloquently argued by Anti Death protestors... pause. There are a million quotes on google to support death penalty... please google it. Million vs Million, does it even out?

Would that apply to Hitler, Pol Pot, Radic, and countless people who never moved a finger but resulted in the deaths of hundreds... oops millions? Arguments can be shared till dooms day approaches, but is it not clear that they did it?

By extending that logic, how can anybody KILL any living being... stop all meat eaters.
scooterette 30 Jul 2015, 11:09
+12 -3
Legallyindia was like Times Now - it was tabloidy and over the top but at least it did not have an agenda - now its slowly becoming like the worst of both Times Now and NDTV - trying to propagate a leftist socialist agenda while still being a tabloid - add to that the trolling by certain ppl who think they are cooler becoz they reveal their names - yes and it includes you Kian. laughable.
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 11:18
+2 -15
You're very hateful and bored at your work and your arguments are all ad hominem, yes?

Please, you really don't need to visit here anymore, there are many other websites you can read where you can be venomous and nasty to people, ok?

Thanks bye
scooterette 30 Jul 2015, 11:34
+10 -4
Hahaha - back to the ad hominem argument - who is being hateful here - why do i always get under your skin - the only person who is being nasty is you - just look at the no. of likes that my comments get you will know - i will continue to comment and you can keep on blocking - I am fine with that - but I request you - please do not tell me which sites to visit - or do you not like free speech
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 11:46
+3 -13
Sure, but please don't be upset if your trolly comments get moderated.
[img]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png[/img]
scooterette 30 Jul 2015, 12:16
+12 -0
I am not upset - what gave you the idea - I am just being an asshole.
Surprised 30 Jul 2015, 14:20
+7 -1
Interesting thread.

Kian - just so I get your stand right - killing 257 people deserves incarceration for life (where your family can visit you (however rarely), you can interact with other people (however constrained), and you are, above all, alive)? If you were the sole judge on the sentencing, what would the sentence be?

Let's not punish death with death ... (the old MG "eye for an eye" argument) - I agree with that generally - in this case, though, anything other than death seems a tad too lenient? A wanton disregard for life cannot be rewarded with life (however constrained) in return?
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 18:23
+1 -8
I'm not sure whether life in most Indian prisons is hugely preferable to death to be honest, both are pretty horrific punishments.

If I remember my basic crime & punishment from law school properly, punishment exists for several reasons:

1. Retribution (eye-for-an-eye argument),
2. Protecting society from harmful members,
3. Deterrence, and
4. Rehabiliation.

Protection can be achieved as well by life in prison as by killing someone.

Deterrence has been proven in study after study not to actually work in the case of the death penalty for the most heinous crimes. Do you think the Delhi gang rapists would have been deterred by the death penalty? Do you think a suicide bomber, who seeks glory in death anyway, would be deterred by death? Do you think a psychopath mass-murderer serial-killer would be?

(That said, I do think the death penalty would work to deter petty crime, like shop lifting, littering or internet piracy, but for the most heinous cases or even for plain murder, it usually doesn't.)

Rehabilitation is literally impossible once someone is dead.

The only argument for the death penalty to exist is 1, retribution, really, both from the perspective of victims' families' and to still the blood thirst of society at large. Both are understandable, but neither should be a solid underpinning for legalised state killing.
kianganz 31 Jul 2015, 00:58
+0 -6
Here's an interesting article on the difficulty of doing deterrance studies and economics in today's Mint:
http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/X89EsbD5U0fcWvqRok4IYN/In-the-end-vengeance.html

[quote]That is, mathematical analysis, at least so far, has not found a definitive answer about the effectiveness of the death penalty in reducing murders.
So, how must we decide our stand on the death penalty? I choose this remark by Jeffrey Fagan, a law professor at Columbia University: “Executions serve only to satisfy the urge for vengeance. Any retributive value is short-lived, lasting only until the next crime.”
The “next crime”. All through this week’s assault on Gurdaspur, I thought of Fagan’s words.[/quote]
Seema Sapra 31 Jul 2015, 04:04
+0 -8
Kian, the author of this Mint article is a writer. Not a criminologist, not a criminal psychiatrist, not in law enforcement and he merely selectively cites one study, then mentions another without citing it, and then quotes a single person without citation again.

OK he mentions a few other names but gives no citations and selectively quotes what suits him.

This article by Dilip D’Souza has no authoritative value as research on this issue.

He was a software engineer and now an author. He is not qualified to undertake such research or peer review such research.

I think we can find much better citations and material on the deterrence issue which will establish the now mainstream opinion that capital punishment does not work as a deterrence.
Seema Sapra 31 Jul 2015, 04:23
+0 -6
OK, my comment above needs modification after carefully reading Dilip D'Souza's article twice.

I misread it at first to mean that he was arguing that research does show a deterrence effect for the death penalty.

In fact, he dismisses Ehrlich's study and then relies upon the following to form his opinion that there is no deterrence effect.

"Well, compare murder rates in the 31 American states that have the death penalty and the 19 that don’t. Since 1990, states without the penalty have consistently recorded significantly lower murder rates, and it’s a gap that has grown.
For the record, I find that persuasive."

The thing is that D'Souza looks at a very old study from 1975 and then only at mathematical analysis.

I think behavioral studies will be a better source of material to support the right conclusion (in my opinion) that the death penalty has no deterrent effect.

If I find the time to do a quick literature survey, I will post some links.

My point being that there exist strong research studies, opinion, anecdotal studies etc to establish pretty conclusively today that the death penalty has no deterrent effect at all. And D'Souza has not found it.
kianganz 31 Jul 2015, 04:37
+1 -2
I think the point of the article is that the math and statistics isn't good enough to authoritatively link one to the other, which seems fair enough.

I.e., research has failed to prove a deterrent effect. Likewise though, that doesn't mean that it's been proved that there's a lack of a deterrent effect.

I think there are so many factors at inter-play that it's really hard to draw watertight conclusions.

Perhaps psychological / behavioural studies could shed more light, but even with that it would be hard to conclude that DP is *never* a deterrent. There are surely isolated cases of premeditated murderers whom the DP scares sufficiently that they say, it's not worth the risk killing XYZ.

Likewise, it's possible that death begets more death, but again, causality between legality of DP and incidence of murder is very hard to draw.
Seema Sapra 31 Jul 2015, 04:47
+0 -4
Kian, I disagree, because I for one am not satisfied to take D'Souza's very perfunctory analysis as establishing anything.

So I do not agree that research has been inconclusive on this issue.

I believe that research has conclusively established that there is no deterrent effect and as I stated I will try and do a literature survey to post links here.

Even intuitively, I don't think any murderer thinks of the consequences before committing murder. Most believe they will not be caught, others don't think, and some like suicide bombers are ready to die.

For someone scared of consequences, the thought of life imprisonment would constitute enough deterrence as the death penalty.

Capital punishment serves the need for vengeance and nothing else. Retribution also involves vengeance and has therefore no place in a modern criminal justice system.

So I disagree also with one of your earlier comments where you listed retribution as one of the objectives of punishment.
kianganz 31 Jul 2015, 04:59
+0 -1
For argument's sake, would you accept that the DP can have a deterrent effect on some petty or other crimes? E.g., if shoplifting were punishable by death, would that deter people? Or if the death penalty was strictly enforced for drunk driving? Or for littering or graffiti or drug dealing (semi-Singapore style)?

Would that change human behaviour? I think it would.

Yes, murder and certain other violent crimes 'of passion' are not necessarily comparable to these, but I'm sure you'll find a rare isolated case or other where the death penalty does deter.

I think the flipside is interesting too though.

Does killing a terrorist create a martyr and other terrorists? Again, I think it might, but I also imagine that causation will be really hard to prove, except for anecdotal evidence here and there.

On retribution, you might think that it has no place in the justice system, and I'd personally agree with you, but traditionally retribution is certainly important to many people and what they perceive 'justice' to be.
Seema Sapra 31 Jul 2015, 05:42
+0 -4
I think your argument that the death penalty would deter petty crimes like shop-lifting, drunk driving or graffiti is fallacious. I put drug dealing in a separate category because it can range from petty drug dealing to organized crime.

Most people who do not murder behave that way because they are law abiding or generally mindful and fearful of consequences or find it morally repugnant to kill, etc.

People who might commit petty crimes but go no further are also generally law abiding and have a moral code and conscience that stops them from committing more heinous crimes. Such people who are very unlikely to commit murder in the first place because they always think of consequences (moral and legal) will be equally deterred from committing murder irrespective of whether the punishment is life imprisonment or death.

Would such people stop committing petty crimes if the penalty was death? Perhaps some might but that is because such persons are already inclined to weigh risks of behaviour.

Will not the same principle then apply to murder? I don't think so. The reason being that if deterrence by way of punishment worked, then life imprisonment without possibility of release is harsh enough to deter.

Also the punishment for murder is always life imprisonment OR death. Most murderers would believe they would not get caught or punished. And probably no murderer expects that he will get life imprisonment instead of death. This choice between life imprisonment and death being a lottery dependent upon so many factors.

What we need to keep in my mind is why people murder. Some believe they can get away with it. Others never stop to analyse the consequences. Some have very strong motives for murder that consume them. Some are ready to die. Some end up committing murder due to circumstances, black inner city boys forced by social circumstances into drug dealing, gangs and a life of crime. They get caught up in this violence and cannot get out and their moral compass becomes irrelevant. There are other reasons why people murder.

I strongly believe that the death penalty is wrong.

On the flip side, killing a terrorist or alleged terrorist does create a martyr and will be used by other terrorists to recruit potential terrorists to the cause they claim.

Also, unjustified killing of an alleged terrorist or a killing that appears to be colored by prejudice and/or injustice would alienate young people from minority communities who feel they are under siege thereby making them more amenable to recruitment by terrorists or people who want to sow discontentment.

& to your last point, if traditionally people feel entitled to retribution then they need to be educated that retribution has no place in the moral universe of the criminal justice system. The anti-death penalty movement aims to do so.

Khoon ka badla khoon se lenge cannot be the law.
Seema Sapra 31 Jul 2015, 05:48
+0 -4
One modification to the first line.

I think your argument that the death penalty would deter petty crimes like shop-lifting, drunk driving or graffiti and that this has some bearing on the debate as to whether or not the death penalty deters henious or mass murder is fallacious.
Seema Sapra 31 Jul 2015, 06:02
+0 -4
An addition -

If the death penalty would deter petty crimes like shop-lifting, drunk driving or graffiti, then even life imprisonment without possibility of release would also deter petty crimes like shop-lifting, drunk driving or graffiti.

And there are very strong ethical reasons why the death penalty is an "obscenity" to quote Desmond Tutu as the various quotes I reproduced in this thread establish.

So if alternatives can do the job, there can be no justification for the death penalty.
Seema Sapra 31 Jul 2015, 06:11
+0 -4
A correction to one paragraph. The correct version being -

"Also the punishment for murder is always life imprisonment OR death. Most murderers would believe they would not get caught or punished. And probably no murderer expects that he will get death instead of life imprisonment. This choice between life imprisonment and death being a lottery that is dependent upon so many factors."

An addition

There will be murderers (like suicide bombers or the 26/11 killers) who are already so alienated that they don't care if they die. To them the possibility of the death penalty would in any case be irrelevant.
KnowTheTruth 3 Aug 2015, 15:18
+1 -0
[quote name="kianganz"]For argument's sake, would you accept that the DP can have a deterrent effect on some petty or other crimes? E.g., if shoplifting were punishable by death, would that deter people? Or if the death penalty was strictly enforced for drunk driving? Or for littering or graffiti or drug dealing (semi-Singapore style)?

Would that change human behaviour? I think it would.

Yes, murder and certain other violent crimes 'of passion' are not necessarily comparable to these, but I'm sure you'll find a rare isolated case or other where the death penalty does deter.
[/quote]

May I add a commoner perspective to your learned arguments?

Until now, most common people believed that the highest order of culpability lies with people who directly commit crime such as planting bombs or preparing explosives, etc whereas providing backend support (logistics, training, indoctrination, finance) are not(or less) culpable. YM (with his education background) perhaps thought that he could get away with it as he had no direct involvement.

But the final sentence, and outcome that ended up with YM getting hanged while the directly involved culprits serving life imprisonment sends out a message that you can try to be smart, but don't think you can get away.

This message, in my opinion, is very important because there are many sympathizers for 'such' crime in the society. And such 'white collared' sympathizers are likely to extend backend support thinking that they aren't really doing anything directly which can land them on the wrong side of the law!
But will be mistaken- and that's what the court's sentence implies.

I hope the courts display the same consistency when it comes to other cases such as mob violence, rioting etc
Scooter- 31 Jul 2015, 05:11
+2 -0
So you mean to say that Suhel Seth and Chetan Chagat are also useless for their social commentary? Tch tch
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 16:00
+1 -6
Yakub Memon hanging: Kanimozhi to move private member’s bill in Rajya Sabha to abolish death penalty

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Yakub-Memon-hanging-Kanimozhi-to-move-private-members-bill-in-Rajya-Sabha-to-abolish-death-penalty/articleshow/48283942.cms?

What we also need is for some High Court and Supreme Court judges to speak up in general against the death penalty on moral grounds in some judgments.
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 16:20
+1 -6
The International Commission of Jurists has condemned the State murder of Yakub Memon

http://www.icj.org/india-the-icj-condemns-the-execution-of-yakub-memon/

"The ICJ strongly condemned the execution of Yakub Memon, who was hanged in Nagpur Central Jail, India this morning.

“Yakub Memon’s execution is a distressing and regressive move, keeping India in the minority of countries which continue to carry out executions,” said Sam Zarifi, ICJ Asia Pacific Regional Director. “While Yakub Memon was convicted of terrible crimes, executing him was not the solution. India should immediately put in place a moratorium on the death penalty.”

..."
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 16:27
+1 -6
No Deterrence

The death penalty fails to deter crime.


"A July 2009 study titled "DO EXECUTIONS LOWER HOMICIDE RATES?: THE VIEWS OF LEADING CRIMINOLOGISTS" by Michael L. Radelet and Traci L. LaCock, demonstrates an overwhelming consensus among criminologists that the empirical research conducted on the deterrence question strongly supports the conclusion that the death penalty does not add deterrent effects to those already achieved by long imprisonment.

..."

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=82
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 16:31
+1 -6
Is the tide turning against the death penalty in the US?

http://www.thetablet.co.uk/blogs/1/692/the-tide-turns-against-the-death-penalty-in-the-us

"On ... 29 June, the nine-member Supreme Court ruled against the three death-row inmates in Oklahoma who had sought to bar the use of the drug Midazolam in lethal injections. But participants took heart in dissenting opinions by Justices Stephen Breyer and Ruth Ginsburg, who called the death penalty’s constitutionality into question and signalled the interest of America’s highest court to revisit the issue.

Several states have abolished the death penalty in recent years, most recently, Nebraska in May. And everywhere, even in Texas, death sentences and executions seem to be slowing down. With botched executions, prosecutorial misconduct, and exonerations (155 to date since 1973) covered regularly in the press, all sides of the political spectrum are realising the senselessness of the death penalty.
Bonowitz told me: “As more states abandon their use of capital punishment either in law or in practice, it’s fair to expect the Supreme Court to apply its 'evolving standards of decency' doctrine to the death penalty as a whole, and strike it down the same way they disallowed the execution of juveniles and those with intellectual disabilities. Hopefully the right case will come along soon.”

..."
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 16:38
+1 -7
AS GLOSSIP EXECUTION NEARS, LAWYERS CHALLENGE DEATH PENALTY ITSELF AS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/07/24/glossip-lawyers-challenge-death-penalty-itself-as-cruel-unusual/

"

Lawyers for Richard Glossip and two other men on Oklahoma’s death row, who last month lost their challenge to their state’s controversial lethal injection protocol, have again asked the Supreme Court to consider their clients’ plight.

But the petition, filed Friday afternoon, does not ask the justices to reconsider their June 29 decision in Glossip v. Gross, which cleared the way for Oklahoma to use midazolam — a drug implicated in a number of botched executions — in its lethal injection protocol. Rather, the petition attacks the death penalty itself as a cruel and unusual punishment that violates the Eighth Amendment.

“It would be appropriate for the Court to use this case to address the constitutionality of the death penalty,” the pleading reads, “because the outcome will turn not on facts specific to any single litigant, but on circumstances common to the administration of the death penalty.”

The new petition, filed by federal public defenders, was written in direct response to a request by Justice Stephen Breyer, made as part of a 40-page dissent filed in Glossip, and joined by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Breyer’s dissent was a detailed, exhaustive attack on the death penalty’s many proven flaws, from its racial bias to the problems of error and misconduct. “[R]ather than try to patch up the death penalty’s legal wounds one at a time,” Breyer wrote, “I would ask for full briefing on a more basic question: whether the death penalty violates the Constitution.”

Today’s filing seeks to affirmatively answer that question, addressing several persistent pitfalls of the death penalty that were raised by Breyer and are embodied in the Oklahoma cases of three named plaintiffs — Richard Glossip, John Grant and Benjamin Cole. In particular, the petition picks up on Breyer’s criticism of the death penalty for its “lack of reliability, the arbitrary application of a serious and irreversible punishment [and the] individual suffering caused by long delays.”

In Glossip’s case, the petition directly addresses Breyer’s concern for the innocent people who have been sent to death row — and some potentially executed. Glossip has consistently maintained his innocence of the crime that sent him to die: the supposed murder-for-hire of his boss, Barry Van Treese, in 1997.

..."
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 16:54
+1 -7
From http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/supreme-court-justice-stephen-breyer-death-penalty-may-be-unconstitutional-119547.html

Justice Stephen Breyer’s dissent: Death penalty may be unconstitutional
By ADAM B. LERNER 6/29/15 1:09 PM EDT Updated 6/29/15 5:35 PM EDT
The death penalty may be unconstitutional, two of the Supreme Court’s liberal judges suggested on Monday.
In a dissent to the majority’s opinion in Glossip v. Gross, which upheld Oklahoma’s use of a key drug used for lethal injections, Justice Stephen Breyer, joined by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, called for a renewed legal debate over the death penalty.
The court has not ruled on the constitutionality of the death penalty at-large since Gregg v. Georgia in 1976 — though it has examined various aspect of death penalty protocols, including applying the punishment to the mentally handicapped, to minors, and via various methods — and Breyer wrote that “[t]he circumstances and the evidence of the death penalty’s application have changed radically since then.”
“Given these changes, I believe that it is now time to reopen the question,” he wrote, adding that the past 40 years of the death penalty in America have led him to believe “that the death penalty, in and of itself, now likely constitutes a legally prohibited ‘cruel and unusual punishmen[t].’”
The fact that the death penalty is applied so sporadically “is the antithesis of the rule of law,” Breyer wrote. Citing numerous studies, the justice concluded that “the factors that most clearly ought to affect application of the death penalty — namely, comparative egregiousness of the crime — often do not. Other studies show that circumstances that ought not to affect application of the death penalty, such as race, gender, or geography, often do.”
Breyer also cited concerns about “excessive delays” in death penalty proceedings and observed that around 20 states have abolished the death penalty outright, while many more have not executed an inmate in years. And he pointed to an emerging global consensus on the death penalty, noting that a clear majority of United Nations member countries have ceased executions over the past few decades.
Sen. Andy Biggs, R-Gilbert, flips through several redistricting maps during a special legislative committee hearing to discuss the a state commission's proposed maps of new congressional and legislative districts, at the Arizona Capitol Friday, Oct. 21, 2011, in Phoenix. (AP Photo/Ross D. Franklin)
Breyer and a number of other justices have previously expressed their personal opposition to the death penalty, but few have expressed outright the belief that the punishment violates the Eighth Amendment’s ban on cruel and unusual punishment. At one point in 2011, Breyer told an audience at the World Affairs Council of Philadelphia that “[o]nly the legislature can abolish the death penalty,” before arguing that public opinion could be swayed on the issue via politics.
But Breyer, in his dissent in Glossip v. Gross, recognized that while the issue of the death penalty, in and of itself, perhaps could be viewed as a legislative matter, “the matters I have discussed, such as lack of reliability, the arbitrary application of a serious and irreversible punishment, individual suffering caused by long delays, and lack of penological purpose are quintessentially judicial matters.”
He concluded, “At the very least, the Court should call for full briefing on the basic question” of the death penalty.
The larger case at hand, Glossip v. Gross, did not deal explicitly with the constitutionality of the death penalty per se, but rather whether or not the state of Oklahoma’s use of the drug midazolam as an anesthetic before executions prevented cruel and unusual punishment. Justice Samuel Alito, writing for the majority, argued that it did not, while Justice Sonia Sotomayor, joined by the court’s three other Democratic appointees, dissented. (The decision “leaves petitioners exposed to what may well be the chemical equivalent of being burned at the stake,” Sotomayor wrote.)
Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, in separate concurring opinions, were the only two to respond directly to Breyer’s arguments regarding the overall constitutionality of the death penalty.
In typically colorful prose, Scalia said that it was “Groundhog Day” and that Breyer was trying to revive a long line of anti-death penalty activism even though the Constitution states that “no person … shall be deprived of life … without due process of law,” effectively referring to death penalty practices in place at the time of the founders.
Scalia referred to Breyer’s argument as “gobbledy-gook,” while Thomas called it “pseudoscientific” and based upon an “imaginary constitutional rule against ‘arbitrariness’.”
Later, Scalia wrote that Breyer’s logic saying excessive delays, caused by anti-death penalty activists, make the practice unconstitutional “calls to mind the man sentenced to death for killing his parents, who pleads for mercy on the ground that he is an orphan.”
He concluded, “Justice Breyer does not just reject the death penalty, he rejects the Enlightenment” for arguing against a punishment that even the acclaimed moral philosopher Immanuel Kant supported.
Though the case ultimately left the feud between the two Republican appointees and two Democratic appointees unresolved, Richard Dieter of the Death Penalty Information Center, which largely opposes the death penalty, said the vigorous debate sets up a future challenge.
“The death penalty itself, I think, is in trouble,” Dieter said, pointing to previous decisions from Justice Anthony Kennedy suggesting he might someday side with Breyer on the issue. Justices Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor, Dieter added, are likely sympathetic to Breyer’s reasoning despite their decisions not to sign the tangential dissent.
“[Breyer’s dissent] says the court should be ready to debate the very constitutionality of the death penalty,” considering it as it’s applied in the 21st century and not as it was debated in the 1970s, Dieter concluded. “Times have changed.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/supreme-court-justice-stephen-breyer-death-penalty-may-be-unconstitutional-119547.html#ixzz3hOVqmlRb
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 17:00
+1 -6
The New Yorker on Justice Breyer's dissent against the death penalty notes:

"...the American public seems to be changing its mind. A 2014 Washington Post poll reported that a majority of Americans favored life without parole over death as a penalty for murder. Over the past fifteen years, both death sentences and executions have dropped dramatically. Thirty states have either abolished the death penalty or not conducted an execution in more than eight years. Those states that still execute have become outliers even within the United States, which in turn is an outlier in the developed world. Considering these trends, the abolition of capital punishment is probably only a matter of time. Whether its end will come at the hands of the Supreme Court or the people remains to be seen."

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/justice-breyer-against-the-death-penalty
Seema Sapra 30 Jul 2015, 17:06
+1 -5
Some more links on US Supreme Court Judge - Justice Breyer's recent path-breaking call for abolition of the death penalty - supported by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg

http://www.businessinsider.in/Justice-Breyer-perfectly-captured-the-major-problem-with-the-death-penalty/articleshow/47868863.cms

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/29/breyer_and_the_death_penalty_the_justice_calls_for_its_abolition.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/29/politics/scotus-death-penalty-justice-scalia-breyer/
PR 30 Jul 2015, 17:46
+7 -2
I appreciated your work Kian till this day.

Was aghast to see that you equate capital punishment for the gravest crime as killing.

Sad. Very Sad. Respect lost.

An apalled reader.
kianganz 30 Jul 2015, 18:12
+2 -8
That is indeed sad. You would not describe "capital punishment for the gravest crime as killing"? What exactly would you call it? A slap on the wrist? Making the problem go away? Just dessert?

I still don't think anybody has managed to explain to me to any satisfaction what the difference is between killing someone without cause and killing someone via an execution?

Merely that one is legal, the other one isn't? Sure, but the effect of both is the same: a human being is killed. It's that simple.

And what of killing someone in self defence? That is legal, so therefore according to your standard, it'd be rude to call it killing?
Scooter- 31 Jul 2015, 05:20
+9 -0
Dear Sir- I have tried to explain your great dilemma earlier. There is a difference between 'legal' and 'by the due process of law'.

Also, I can argue whether killing someone in self defence is legal termed 'legal' as opposed to self defence being a defence for killing someone- which would result in you not getting punished. Slight difference. But a big difference. (just like neil armstrongs step- one step- also a giant leap at the same time).

while everyone is quoting left right and centre, with respect to your unwillingness (note use of unwillingness instead of inability) to open up to a different but potentially metitworty view, let me quote one as well-

"Tumse Na ho Payega!"- Ramadhir Singh.
kianganz 31 Jul 2015, 05:28
+1 -7
Let's just accept that killing can be used for causing death:

1. without moral culpability (accident, etc)
2. with justification (self-defence, a police encounter, etc)
3. with slight moral culpability (negligence, etc)
4. with moral culpability (recklessly, or intentionally).

I still don't see why capital punishment wouldn't neatly slot into any of these categories, however you feel about the DP.

Just because you're uncomfortable with the word doesn't make it incorrect.

Anyway, I think we've discussed this issue to death (pun intended), I guess I'm happy to agree to disagree.
Scooter- 31 Jul 2015, 09:32
+2 -0
and here you are executing the thought as opposed to killing it, since you have given me adequate opportunity to be heard. Since you are the supreme court of legally india, i will accept your decision with great humility.

You also heard middle of the night, might have also consulted with prachi and other friends to find merits in my arguments. unfortunately you didnt. but you followed due process. Hence punished by executing dissent as opposed to killing it.

;-)
kianganz 31 Jul 2015, 09:37
+0 -1
Hah. How do you know I didn't speak to friends about it? :)
Scooter- 31 Jul 2015, 15:02
+1 -0
'didnt' was for not finding merit. not for not discussing :-)
Seema Sapra 31 Jul 2015, 09:10
+0 -4
PR - Retired SC Judge K T Thomas called capital punishment judicial murder - that bother you too?
Confused Zeus Says . . . 31 Jul 2015, 02:32
+2 -10
I don't think Kian's use of the word "kills" in the headline is provocative. Its a different matter that certain readers are feeling provoked. All Kian is doing is describing a fact. Those feeling provoked are likely ones who equate murder with killing.

Appreciate Kian standing for himself. Like it or not, there is clarity of thought in his comments - not just in this thread but elsewhere too.
kianganz 31 Jul 2015, 02:47
+0 -8
Thanks Zeus!

I have a feeling that any of the more big & mainstream stories we do end up with lots of traffic via social media and Google News, which results in an influx of angry non-lawyers and/or political trolls in the comments section. :)

Normal LI readers, as trolly as they are, usually (/occasionally?) seem more amenable to reasoned debate.
Ninon 31 Jul 2015, 06:51
+10 -0
So someone who disagrees with you is either a non-lawyer and/or a political troll? Talk about being presumptuous.
Scooter- 31 Jul 2015, 15:03
+1 -0
comment wasnt censor worthy. attempted funny.
Ek Tha Kian 31 Jul 2015, 05:09
+8 -0
going by the logic given by anti capital punishment doyens, i understand that any one can come kill 1000 or more, serve 14 years of imprisonment and should be left free in the society only bcoz studies does not establish that capital punishment is not serving as deterrent, or few people are against capital punishment, is India really a banana republic..???

now people advocating abolition of death punishment please provide any proof to establish that soft punishment is more effective in reforming the criminals..??

is this a trend to criticise every thing to prove your self "enlightened than thou"
scooterette 31 Jul 2015, 05:56
+10 -0
maybe this comment will be blocked - maybe it will not - and the great Kian will publish it. Arun Jaitley has a word for ppl like these - he calls them the serial signatories - they sign up for everything - be it the hanging of Qasabs and Afzal Gurus of the world, action against maoists or kashmri insurgents or illegal funding of NGOs - and god forbid if its predicatd on majoritarian view then it has to be evil - But my issue is with something else completely - its one thing to have view and have a debate which hopefully you wanted by publishing this article and another thing to block comments which do not agree with your understanding of what is correct and taking umbrage of the fact that it is your website while at the same time allowing other ppl to troll by pasting a 100 quotes and you being the editor using words and means which go agaisnt your own comments policy - its just petty -Finally one can argue that exists no data to establish correlation between life imprisonment and deterrence - so lets abolish that as well - why dont we send the terrorists back home with a gentle rap and some flowers and hope that they get reformed - and while we are at it lets do the same to the IS terrorists in punjab as well.
kianganz 31 Jul 2015, 06:01
+0 -9
You're the only commenter I see insulting anyone else here.

Other than that, yawn, even I'm starting to get bored of this high-school-debate-level discussion...

Knock yourself out and comment as much as you like, but any ad hominem or insulting others commenting under the real name won't be published.
Seema Sapra 31 Jul 2015, 09:01
+1 -5
Ah, so you are an Arun Jaitley fan, no wonder you are attacking me.

People like who, Scooterette.

Care to share your real name so we also know who people like you are.

And several people have terms for people like Arun Jaitley. Twitter especially is abuzz on this. Maybe you wouldn't want to get into that.

The rest of your comment is nonsensical.
scooterette 31 Jul 2015, 06:59
+7 -0
The right to free speech means nothing without the right to offend - i hope I have succeeded - but in this case it seems only you have been offended - was never the intention.
Seema Sapra 31 Jul 2015, 07:55
+0 -5
There is one anti-death penalty quote which expresses a view very pertinent to Yakub Memon's case who spent 22 years in jail most of them in solitary confinement, and which deserves mention here.

"When you execute a man who has been on death row seven, eight, 10 or 12 years, you are not executing the same man that came in."

Don Cabana, former warden of Mississippi's Parchman Penitentiary
Prajeesh 31 Jul 2015, 13:20
+0 -2
Why??? was the execution on the same day of Dr.APJ Kalam last ritual day, is there a law that can extend the execution or exception,there was a law it only refers when only govt current members dies or any respectful person from govt officials
KnowTheTruth 31 Jul 2015, 14:21
+2 -1
And for a change, read something about the history of memons...

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/bombay-serial-blasts-search-on-for-bombay-12-member-memon-family/1/302029.html

It appears that law enforcement agencies do not crackdown on small time criminals (which Tiger was when he started off) , which results into such major incidents.
KnowTheTruth 31 Jul 2015, 15:59
+1 -0
Book Excerpt:
The Yakub Memon story: The man who helped India expose Pakistan's role in 1993 Bombay blasts

http://www.scroll.in/article/744801/the-yakub-memon-story-the-man-who-helped-india-expose-pakistans-role-in-1993-bombay-blasts
KnowTheTruth 3 Aug 2015, 15:23
+0 -0
Quoted:

Deterrence lies not in the severity of punishment, but its certainty. When the Constitutional Court of South Africa abolished the death penalty, it said: “The greatest deterrent to crime is the likelihood that offenders will be apprehended, convicted and punished. It is that which is presently lacking in our criminal justice system; and it is at this level and through addressing the causes of crime that the State must seek to combat lawlessness.”
KnowTheTruth 3 Aug 2015, 15:29
+0 -0
Apart from the standard debate about the effectiveness of death penalty, I would like to know the economics around it. e.g. is it cheaper to hang someone rather than keep him alive for 25 yrs behind the bars?
Please do not quote US figures as the costs are not the same in India.

(read that the platform fabrication cost for YM was 26 lakhs. Add a few crores for security in their week. Hangman etc specialists deputed from Pune)

For a government that weighs economics over anything else, this can be a good point in favour (or against) DP. :-)